Lord Kipling Odds Drop 2 Minutes In
 

I can understand in a 6 furlong race but when they are 2 minutes into the race and the horse clicks down from 5/2 to 2-1.....even if they are going in at 45 second cycles, that's more than two cycles after the money is in. Shouldn't happen. No conspiracy here, but it shouldn't happen.

Noticed that too. Also noticed the $2 Tri for 2-1 over 6-1 over 8-1 paid to the tune of $334.50. Guess everyone had Firewood in their triples.

There are other sites I go on to read once and a while and there are lots and lots of discussion going on about open windows at different tracks across the country. That's why odds of winning horses rarely if ever go up during the race, if this is the case people are making a killing and tracks keep it quiet because they don't want to drive more people away from the races.

Of course there's a CONSPIRACY here. This is PAST POSTING and most of the tracks allow their big bettors to bet after they break. (Why wouldn't they when they can blame on faulty technology or criminal behavior?) This is especially noticeable for front runners that get a clear lead. Just another way the tracks make this an UNFAIR game. Which makes it all that more delicious when you pick a longshot (that actually goes UP in odds) and stick it up their corrupt FAT asses.

This is why you just can't play 4-5:1 or lower anymore. Especially if you bet with an eye towards 'value'.

Wouldnt the fact that there were 2 gate scratches have anything to do with this?

Incorrect. The odds drop was 2 minutes after the race began. The odds after the scratches reflected the change. Like I said if you watch the race it is clear when they change and it is a full 2 minutes into the race.

So if was a 6 furlong race the odds would have changed after the race?

Correct, which would be pretty strange right?

You understand that satellite OTB's have to resend the information, let alone get the actual scratch. It isn't like they wait for people to cancel bets like at other tracks, they gate scratch, and if they don't have to move anyone (like the 3rd race), they just let it roll.

There was a delay after the scratches of a few minutes. The odds are cycled on 45 second clips which means this is more than two cycles in during a 2 mile race. It shouldn't happen. If you watch the replay you can see when the odds are reflected changed on Lord Kipling when he's on the backstretch the second time.

If it was a 6f race they would of sent it in at the half, here they sent it around the mile marker

So who is in on this conspiracy?

I am. Don't you know the first few seconds of a 2 MILE Race were the difference. Seeing my chance to pounce, I emptied my xpressbet account on Lord Kipling. I tried to bet the entire $7.70 but they only allowed me to wager complete dollars, what a Fokring outrage. Anyway I'm sorry to all the people that didn't have this huge advantage and will let you know about the next opportunity.

There are open widows at tracks and otb's this is FACT

So, a guy like you, who is around the track, hasn't noticed all the odds changes AFTER they break? Not at AP? Not at MTH? Not at DEL? no where?

If YOU aren't noticing it, then it must not be happening.:rolleyes:

Past posting is NOT an issue and whales aren't getting rebates.

There are actually a number of possible explanations
 

other than a criminal conspriacy.... all of these betting outlets are presumably transmitting wagering data across the internet through various links, routers, hubs.

every organization in the country deals with the challenge of keeping up with hardware, software patches, and just slow connections from various ISP's and even providers like Verizon that can be hosed up on a given day. A single large wager coming from somewhere posted close to post that just has to wait for traffic, someone in the local track downloading a big porn file...who knows...

I agree that is very late, but I would not immediately assume it is monkey business

I/L

it's worth mentioning that the horse paid $6.90.

he dropped from "5-2" to 2.45-1.
46K on kipling total


the concerns are valid. there shouldn't be odds changes this late into the race, whether its on the level or not.

That is exactly correct.

Technology would easily support direct links to load data directly from a satillite betting site to the host unlike the current situation for most places... daisy chain where site A uploads wagering data to site B who collects data from 5 other satillites before the data is bundled and uploaded (sent) to the to the host track for number crunching.

The betting had stopped, but the data is still being sent to the host AFTER the windows close and the race is running. This is becasue the transmission is slowed by collecting and uploading. Most tracks are too cheap to use point to point technology.

Thats great and all and im sure true to an extent but how do you account for the winners odds going DOWN EVERY TIME. And why when you look at exacta probables as horses are going to the gate your exacta is paying $20 and then when you hit and the race goes official it only pays $15. Can anyone honestly say that their exacta has ever paid more then when the last time you saw it before the race went off? I think I can say with complete confidence that it has NEVER happened. I think bettors have become so accustomed to it that they dont think twice about it because its been the norm for so long. Something isnt right.

Correct on the math, was going to mention this. I agree that the concerns are valid, and there definitely is past posting going on as evidenced by this race, but the drop on this one was small so whomever got their bet in late it wasn't a huge wager.

There are also big bets being canceled after the break...that is fact and allowed at many tracks around the country.

Those canceled bets aren't on horses that break well and go to the front either.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Sorry Bob..you have to be a Republican to use the secret window.:p

I'll put Northfield Park up against any track for allowing cancelled bets at the start, and gate callers an extra second or two. The High Roller room lets those boys get away with murder, and that is a fact. For those who dont remember or know, the story of the clerks from the Florida dog tracks in the late 70's. Dont want to misquote story, but the high low was they had a way to punch a few tickets after race complete. Really amazing, especially how they got popped. Its is the SI archives. think the title was Win, Place, or Steal.

I don't have time to give a thorough explanation, but as has been brought up here and on air several times, the video packages that display odds on screen are directly involved in the appearences of odds increases or decreases.

1.) Odds that the video displays start with the numbers that are an estimated 93% of the pool 30-45 seconds before the start of the race.

2.) There is another tabulation before the gates open which will be the second set of reflected odds displayed on screen and are an estimated 97% of the pool.

3.) The final odds are reflected after the 'flush' 10 seconds into a race.

The changes on screen reflect these snapshots of the odds ONLY IF THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER OF THE HORSES. So there is frequently a lag in the odds being reflected.

It's funny how no one ever notes when there are increases in odds on screen. Of course it happens in completely equal proportion to decreases... Happened to bring one up on air a few weeks ago in fact...

I know a former teller that stated at most tracks there is one machine that allows you to cancel tickets up to 45 seconds into the race in case they screw up on a large wager, they have the opportunity to cancel it and not have to pay out of their own pockets.

In all my years of gambling, I have never had an exacta pay more than the final blink on the screen as they got into the gate, never.

wasn't there a teller who had it down pat and could get down a big win bet if he saw the lone speed break well from the gate .... i think it was at GP or somewhere down in florida or like you say above the teller could cxl the ticket in time if the lone speed didn't break well and lost all chance at the start, who polices the tellers?

The tracks know this is going on, they cant afford a huge scandal so they keep it on the hush hush. For the most part its the regular heavy hitters that have this down pat, they sure cant afford to lose the high rollers.

when people get excited over a pool inefficiency with one of the chalks, and then while of course thousands of other dollars also bet it from home on their computers in the final available seconds, it has become popular to cry foul. These cases probably are 98% situations where everybody with a pc and an ADW account bet the horse with zero minutes to post because he was a "steal".

However past posting probably does occur sometimes, as does past canceling/ odds manipulation. I've video captured the pool money a few times when horses that don't figure have a couple thousand dollars "too much" in certain pools, early in the betting, to see if I spot a cancel or odds manipulation but I haven't caught it yet.

Maybe the odds aren't a good idea to show on the screen anymore?
Things should be done to alleviate both the perception and the real threat of it happening. High speed internet isn't THAT expensive, we are just sending data around...

Of course the tracks always have an explanation for everything. I don't believe them. There have been too many cases recently of past posting that we know about. I imagine those we don't know about are tenfold.

Tenfold is about the amount I've decreased my betting this year. The game just sucks right now for the most part. It is amazing how outdated the whole tote system is, and nobody seems to care.

I was going to say it but figured that would be met with derision.

you are right on! the odds barely moved. why would anyone complain, that horse was an overlay.

Steve,

All I can say is, I chose a race that was 2 miles long on purpose. If ever there was a time in shouldn't have happened, that was it...I would have no problem with them closing betting when they start loading.

Ok that's idiotic, the horse could've been 2.9-1 before the 2.45 to one click. We don't know....But saying what you said makes it sound like you should just make a donation to the track.

Rand..

It might not matter until the video display package and tote system are updated/automated/integrated more thoroughly. Now, there is STILL going to be a slight lag from the final flushes of the system and how they appear on screen. If horses stay in that same order ALL THE WAY around, the prices could be completely different than what was shown THE ENTIRE RACE.

I was careful to note that I did not think it was a conspiracy in my intial post, but after scandals in racing, in particular the BC Cup of '01 and various Pick 4s of that year, racing needs to do everything possible to keep even the perception of chicanery from happening.

Wait until CJ sees you mistook him for Bobby Fischer.



I hope you have a good lawyer Steve.

:eek:


OMG... I did in fact mistake the author. In this case, an outrageously egregious error.

Hopefully CJ recovers from such a vicious attack.........