shaq to the Cavs
 

Will this push them over the top?

It would be more beneficial if he joined the Cleveland Police Force - Shaq is over-the-hill.



His first duty could be investigating the disappearance of Morty...

No.

He's a spring chicken compared to Ben Wallace and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I don't think this puts them over the top but it puts them a lot closer. I think they still need another jump shooter, Mo Williams is their only guy that shoots over 40% which is pretty bad with the number of open looks they should get with Lebron getting double teamed.

I'd like to know how many centers that aren't over the hill were more productive or had better seasons than him last year. I'd say Howard, Jefferson before he got hurt, Duncan, and Ming. if Shaq can produce anywhere near the level he did last year, he's still an upper echelon center. maybe that says more about the quality at that position than it does about him but it doesn't change the truth.

West shot 45% and 40% on threes. They need a long defender more than anything else now that they have a low post presence. They could use a big combo guard but so could just about everyone else. I believe that Cleveland wont overuse Shaq in the regular season similarly to what Phoenix did last year. They got him without giving up much, just a one season salary increase. Pavlovic may well resign with them anyway since Phoenix is likely to cut him.

I was talking about 40% on 3 pointers. West is not a great 3 point shooter. With the open looks he gets from the presence of Lebron a really good jump shooter should be much higher than 39.9% in the regular season and 33.3% in the postseason. They could use a long defender but I think they can survive with Varejao now that they have Shaq. When they needed Varejao to play the five is when they were in big trouble. I think adding another jump shooter is their biggest need right now. Pavlovic coming back would certainly lessen that need but getting someone better than him would be a big boost.

Are we back to perseverating over the merits of Delonte West?

Please...make it stop.

The guy shoots 40% on threes in the regular season. It should be higher than that? Who are all these other guys that are shooting "contested" three pointers without Lebron? West shot a better % than JR Smith, Rashard Lewis, Paul Pierce, etc. Varejao has shown that he is not a perimeter defender pretty conclusively during the playoffs.

Saying West is not a great three point shooter when he is shooting 40% from there is pretty ridiculous. Saying that because of Lebron they should shoot a better % is more than a stretch.

The Cavs were one of the top 3 point percentage teams in the league last year. Top 3. They shot a better percentage on the year than Orlando. Williams fell apart in the playoffs until the last two Orlando games...by that time the cat was out of the bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter is OUTSTANDING. That is not their weakness. I can't see Pavlovic coming back. He is not a favorite with the coaching staff. He was not in their rotation at the end of the season. The only time he got big minutes last year was when West broke his wrist. Good trade...they got Shaq for nothing. Wallace can't play at all anymore and Pavlovic is pretty much a non-entity. If it doesn't put them over the top...they were never over the top anyway.

What's your problem with him?? He had a good year last year. He's not a superstar, but good God who is?? He's a good perimeter defender...the best on their team and he gives them at least a threat offensively. For me, compared to Larry Hughes, he seems like a superstar comparitively. West was not the problem in post season this year. The problem in the Orlando series as I explained time and time and time and time again to you was Mo Williams. He didn't show up til game 5 and it was too late by then.

I think we can all agree that Steve Kerr is a great shooter. Without Jordan he was a 42.2% shooter from 3. With Jordan he was a 47.9% shooter from 3. Why? Cause Jordan attracted attention and gave him more open looks. Mo Wiliams was a 35.9% three point shooter before he went to Cleveland. He shot 43.6% this year. Why? Cause Lebron attracted attention and gave him more open looks. The fact that West shot 39.9% this year with Lebron means with other teams he would likely be a 35-36% 3 point shooter.

It's Cleveland. A most definitive NO. Well worth the risk however.

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

IN the end though is 36 percent really that bad?? 3 point shooting was far from a problem for the Cavs this year. As I said they were one of the top 3 percentage teams in the league last year. The problem in the ORlando series is it left them for some reason. I dont' know the reason...Orlando's defense, just not shooting well etc. I have no clue. It appeared they got open looks in that series though. That's what the team was however...LeBron and a bunch of outside shooters. They are in trouble if they don't shoot well. That's what happened the Orlando series. EVen Ilgauskas despite being 7 foot 3, his offensive strength is as an outside shooter. Dalakhani mentioned it several times and it was one thing I did agree with her about...the Cavs had zero post offensive threat.

But my point is if you take a lot of 3 pointers anything in the 35 to 45 percent range is good. WEst is a pretty good 3 point shooter.

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

Outside shooting is not their problem. It was a strength last year. That's why they won 66 games last year. The problem with the team is that it was too much a focus...when the outside shots stopped falling in the Orlando series they had nothing else other than LEBron. No post offense to fall back on. Same with Orlando....difference in that series they made their 3s Cleveland didn't. THeir 3's stopped falling against LA...they lost in 5. When you depend so much on making 3s as both those teams do, you'll have to get lucky to win it all. Neither did.

I don't think 36% is bad. I do think that with the way the Cavalier offense is set up, they'd be better off getting a guy that's a more natural 40% shooter so that when he gets the better looks that James creates, he might up it to around 44-45%.

Past history aside, I think if Shaq came into camp leaner and business-like he wouldn't be prone to late-season injuries.....they could get another shot!
However, Jefferson going to Spurs could make it really interesting in the West!

We need more than Jefferson.
We need a post.
We need a backup Point.
We need Manu to stay healthy all year (a virtual impossibility with the way he throws himself about at his age).
We need Duncan's knees to stay healthy.
We need Parker to be as good as he was this season.

We are old.
And we dont play good D anymore.

It helps getting Jefferson.
But it does not make us contenders with the Lakers.

And you need the Lakers and Mavs to move to the Eastern Conference.

Is Ben Stein...part of the deal ?? I thought they are chained together for a year ??? :confused:

We can beat the Mavs.
I dont worry about them.
If we have what I wrote above occur, we
can smack the Mavs.

That is just simply not pertinent. Who doubles perimeter players in the NBA?

The vast majority of three pointers taken are undefended regardless of the team, composition of the team or any other factor. Shooting 40% is shooting 40%, period.

For 10 million a year? The Nets want to keep him to open up cap space for next year.

This is ridiculous.

Not even close to true. Orlando didn't get anywhere close to the same kinds of shots against the Lakers over the last three games as they got in the first two or against Cleveland. A lot of their shots were contested and those same 40% shooters couldn't shoot as well. If you don't think that playing with a guy like Kobe or Wade or James translates to better shots and more open looks, you see the game way different than most people. Anyone's percentage is going to go up playing with those guys.

That just isnt true. Kobe and Wade are both slashers who rarely dish out to the three point line. No one doubles perimeter players in the NBA. it is just a false argument that a player should shoot better because they are playing with a great scorer. it makes no sense. If you said that they played with a top post player, where there are doubles and people collapsing off the perimeter it may be palatable. If you want to say that Williams three point shooting improvement was because of Lebron, why did his overall shooting percentage drop? because shooting %'s are effected by tons of factors outside of the 4 other players on the court.

They dish out all the time. Are you kidding me? You really don't think they get double-teamed? Everytime they drive there are 2-3 guys around them. Sasha Vujacic owes his career to Kobe. How do you think Fisher and Ariza end up so wide open all the time? Because of the attention that Kobe gets. It's not a traditional double in the sense that when he gets it there are two on him right away. The reason for that is because he shoots a lot of jumpers. But when he makes moves to the basket, he's usually tripled.

Yeah for guys that dish to open shooters all the time and play 40 mins a game 4 assists is a bit weak no? You dont think that Gasol and odom have something to do with those guys being "open"?

I feel Shaq will disappear in Cleveland. He is getting older and injuries will be the end of him soon.

The Nets could take on Ilgauskas' $10 million a year and be in the same situation for cap space.

The Cavs dont want to trade Ilgauskas. Why would they do that? Shaq isnt a full time player anymore.

Shaq averaged 30 minutes a game last year and played in over 70.

If he matches that, keeping ilguaskas would be in essence paying 10 million dollars for a guy you hope will play 18 minutes a game.

If Cleveland can unload that salary, they will. The problem is, no one will take it.

Dont waste your time KG. Chuck doesnt quite get the whole defensive rotation thing. If someone can't grasp that a great player creates better shots for teammates simply by being on the court...well... 10 paragraphs isnt going to help. Heck, i will give it a another shot.

The first rule of defense is to stop the ball. If Lebron is driving to the hole, defenders must converge to stop the ball. If he has beaten his man and two guys converage, that leaves two guys to cover four. If the offense is spaced properly, a spot up jump shooter will have an eternity to shoot. This is basketball 101.

Taking it a step further, defenses concede certain shots and parts of the floor to a player. The better the player, the fewer things can be conceded and the more stress it puts on the defense and the rotation. When jordan played, Detroit actually set up the famed "jordan rules" designed to specifically stop HIM. If that was the case, weren't his teammates getting cleaner looks than if he wasnt on the floor?

This is basic stuff. I am actually surprised that we are even discussing this. Its even dumber than going over the merits of delonte west.

8 years later and KG can't let go of this mavericks fantasy.

Cleveland would not unload Ilgauskas without getting a quality center in return. they need to rest Shaq more as they are planning on playing deep into the playoffs and he will need to be fresh for another month and a half if things go right. Not to mention putting all your eggs in the Shaq basket with no safety net seems to be an extremely risky play. And 18 minutes a game is a a quarter and a half, a lot of time to have to play..... who exactly would be the back up? Cleveland cant replace him in the free agent market this year.

Unrestricted Free Agents

Raef LaFrentz
Radoslav Nesterovic
Jason Collins
Zaza Pachulia
Robert Swift
Chris Mihm
Saer Sene
Jarron Collins
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Calvin Booth
Melvin Ely
Ryan Hollins
Lorenzen Wright
Adonal Foyle
Jamaal Magloire
Sean Marks
Theo Ratliff
Patrick O'Bryant
Jake Voskuhl
Dikembe Mutombo


See anybody there you want to play 18 minutes? Cleveland just brought in Chinese money, they aren't worried about the cap this year especially with Shaq's 20 mill coming off the cap next year.

So when Lebron drives to the basket more people converge on him than other players? last time I looked basketball was still 5 on 5. Don't ALL NBA teams have guys that drive to the basket which would leave the perimeter players open? So if Vince Carter goes to the basket the players on the Nets are less open than when Lebron or Kobe drives? This is so stupid that it is silly. Do guys on teams other than Miami, LA and Cleveland take three under more duress than those teams? Since when does open for a three pointer in Cleveland become easier than open for a three pointer in Minnesota?

The "Jordan rules" were to knock Jordan down and play overly physical with him to discourage him from driving. That had zero to do with open teammates. The better the player the MORE things are conceded. teams know that the great players are going to get their points. Most NBA teams WANT Kobe to shoot more and get his teammates out of the flow of the game.

Are Kobe, Wade and LeBron the only players in the NBA to drive to the basket and create open shots? Shouldn't teams with great distributors at the point say the same thing? Cant you say that bad teams should shoot better because the opponents aren't playing as hard against them? In the end guys make or miss three pointers because of thier own abilities and health situation. Teams dont commit more players to "cover" great players unless it is a case like the year SA played Cleveland in the finals and they simply dared the rest of the Cavs to beat them by picket fencing against LeBron on the wings.

The theory that a player should shoot a better three point % because they are on the same court with a great player is absurd.