NBA Draft 2009
 

Random thoughts about the upcoming draft:

Ricky Rubio- Let me get this straight. Rubio is a 6 5 inch european point guard that is not especially quick and can't shoot especially well and people actually are talking about him with a number 2 pick? Has the world gone mad?

Ty Lawson- Why is his stock down so far? He looked like a player to me. Yeah, he's short but when did a guy need to be tall to run an offense? He looks like a classic point guard to me that is quick enough to get to the basket, strong enough to finish and shoots well enough to keep a defender honest. He does everything well and he takes care of the basketball. At very worst he will be an excellent back up pg.

Thabeet- I have a feeling he may drop a little and if he does i think some teams will be sorry for not taking him. To me, he is the legit number 2 draft choice. Although he is a project on offense, defensively he is a game changer.

Wizards- I hear they are entertaining trades for the number 5. The most interesting one was the 5 and jamison for stoudamire. Now that seems like a pretty good trade.

I'm with you 100% on this. How his stock is so low is beyond me. Maybe he'll never be a star but you are pretty much guaranteed to get a solid contributer out of him which is great value if he slips into the 20s. Johnny Flynn may put up more gaudy numbers in the pros but if you are looking for the point guard that can most help your team win games then Lawson is your guy.

Also, can someone explain to me how BJ Mullen is being drafted at all not to mention how he is being drafted in the top 20 picks? He scored 10 points and had 3 boards against Siena in the NCAA tournament while matched up with Ryan Rossiter who will never be confused with an NBA player (or even a Big East player) and had 16 points and 15 boards.

Hansbrough is a lock to be nowhere near as good of a pro as he was a college player but isn't he still going to be a better pro than BJ Mullen? I'm willing to bet Hansbrough lasts longer in the NBA than at least 6 guys taken ahead of him and would not be surprised at all if he becomes a valuable 8 and 6 guy off the bench for a playoff team. Hey, if David Lee can become a 16 and 12 guy in the NBA then anything is possible.

Did you watch this 18 year old in the Olympics?

He can play. He sees the floor like an NBA vet.
And he made plays against the best players in the United States
like it was a normal day on the court.

He will mature physically. He is skinny.
NBA weight program will be necessary.
PG are usually projects. It has to be the toughest position to walk into.
Huge upside imo.

Point guards are usually projects? Really? How many 18 year old "project" point guards have there been?

Sebastian telfair?

Agree with Pgardn here, think Rubio has huge upside. Hans is a classic "tweener" but with his work ethic and maturity, I think he will easily match Lee's numbers, he showed signs of having a good mid-range jumper, on Rome show he talked about that, he gets it! Lawson is way way underrated!

Rubio may have "huge upside". But at point guard? How many projects can you name that have made it at point guard? On the other hand, i can name you about 20 guards that have excelled at international play and ended up not doing well at the NBA level.

Point guard is not a position where you can be " a project" like center. At least with a center, a guy has size and can clog the middle and defend and grab rebounds while he is learning. That isnt the case at point guard. In order for a point guard to play, he has to be ready to run the offense. Do you really want to trust a slow 18 year old that doesnt shoot it well to run your offense? Do you really want to invest a top 5 pick on a guy that you hope will develop into an NBA guard?

I ask again, how many "projects" have made it at point guard?

Wait, did you just say Hansbrough will easily match 16 and 12 a season? :zz:

I'd rather have Lawson over Rubio. Rubio might turn out to be a star but I've seen enough of these highly regarded foreign players that don't pan out. Guys like Zoran Planinic and Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Darko Milicic Yaroslav Korolev and Saer Sene and Yi Jianlian and Danilo Gallinari. I'd rather take a guy that excelled at the highest level of amateur basketball night in and night out against future NBA players. Rubio does look really good though and anyone that passes him up may regret it later but I'd go with Lawson. That guy is a real player and you know exactly what you'll get with him. It's sort of like do you want the horse that will run you some consistent 100 Beyers and win the occassional grade three race or do you want the one that will be like Discreet Cat or Commentator, have the potential to be brilliant but for some reason, never sustain it.

And I still think that Lester Hudson is going to make some team happy that they drafted him.

Tony Parker.


Did anyone watch the frggn Olympics?

Rubio can play. Not against collegians like Lawson.
The best players on the planet.
I dont give a flyin flip how tall he is, the
guy can play the game.

BTW project does not mean unable.
It means they will get better with maturity.
So there have been a huge number of "projects".
Kevin Durant is a project. Look at how his game changes
after some added strength.

Thabeet is still interesting.
He is such a good defender.
But with the injuries popping up, and the inability
offensively... a taller Oden?

LOL Most players get better with maturity pgardn. A "project" in NBA parlance refers to a guy that isnt ready to contribute much immediately but there is potential that he can contribute in the future. Kevin Durant certainly DOES NOT fit that profile.

Most NBA point guards are drafted in the hope of contributing something pretty quickly. You dont stash a point guard "project" at the back of the bench like you would a big man. Tony Parker started 72 of 77 games his rookie year for a playoff team in san antonio and was all rookie. He started for a championship team his next year. He wasnt a "project". They drafted him as a player and they got one.

If a team drafts Rubio, it isnt to be a "project". They want some kind of immediate contribution. I question whether that is realistic. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

Scratch the word project then.
Its used too many diff. ways.
Just like Power Forward.

Tony Parker was pulled numerous times during his first
3 seasons as a Spur in the 4th quarter for more polished
guys. The Spurs had no idea that he would be so good,
no idea. Popvich had many doubts about Parker's mental
game but stuck it out with him because he was so young.

Look.
Rubio is a ball handling genius. He can be bullied because
he is still a kid physically. The NBA is tough. But he will play and contribute
imo mainly because he understands the game.
Can he be intimitated physically? Maybe. Just like Parker was.
He is NOT Derrick Rose physically. He is NOt Ty Lawson or
Johnny Flynn physically. But I personally think he is a better
player. I think he upside is higher than both these guys.
This is what I mean by project, which might be the wrong term.

And yes we will see.
I thought Oden would be a defensive nightmare and rebounder,
and thought L. Aldridge would be a run of the mill
off the bench type.

Rubio can play. Seriously.

Lawson is a nice player but isnt growing anytime soon.

Thabeet may be tall but i cant help think of how Blair of Pittsburgh totally bitched him out.

Mullen is a career backup with 6 fouls at best. Out of the league in 2 years at worst.

Hansborough is a backup at best. He has zero lateral quickness, has a crude offensive game and simply isnt that big. David Lee would eats his lunch.

This is a terrible draft.

We will see about Rubio. I watched the olympics and have seen everything you guys have. I want to watch him guarding real NBA pgs in a real NBA game not the olympics. Two totally different games.

Thabeet can rebound and block shots until he fills out and perhaps develops a defensive game.

Hansborough is a career back up. Lee is a totally different player.

This draft is bad at the top but deep with mediocrity.

Yes, all of those things you say about Parker are true except they did know what they had right away. They knew they didnt have to trade up to draft him because 2001 was before drafting euros was really in vogue and in fact he was the third french guy drafted...ever. Pop stuck with him because he knew that he had great talent.

Rubio is a "ball handling genius"? yes, he showed stretches in international play but its a different game here. We will see. All the scouts and everyone on here agree with you so I realize my view is somewhat contrarian. To me, I think these people are insane.

Even though it's international play and against good players, it's still exhibition ball for the most part. Consider how good Patrick Mills of Australia looked. After watching him in the Olympics, you half expected him to completely dominate in college at Santa Clara and while he has been a good college player, he's not reached the levels of his rave Olympic reviews.

Uh he was hurt...

He played well...but in a league that is not exactly known for defense and its not like he was putting up 40 a game. He averaged 18 per game and shot 40% from the field.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...c-without-him/

I think he is an Aaron Brooks type who will do just fine with the right team but those kind of guys arent highly coveted. He is not a great shooter but that is something that can be improved.

Not the whole season. He played 26 games last year and averaged 18 points, four assists, and three turnovers per game while shooting 40% from the field (34% on threes).

The year before that, he averaged 15, three and a half assists, and three turnovers shooting 43% (32%).

Hardly bad numbers for a freshman and then a sophomore but hardly earth moving considering the conference he was playing in and after reading all of his Olympic press, you'd think he would be much better. The Olympics tend to do this with guys a lot. The Lakers took a guy off the Chinese Olympic team that can't get off their developmental squad. Some years back, I remember Andrew Gaze would kill people in the Olympics but was just an average college player. Does anyone believe Oscar Schmidt could have come to the NBA scoring 35 a game?

While I agree with you on that the fact is David Lee was the 30th pick and never looked like more than an 8 and 6 guy in the NBA off his time at Florida. He's the perfect example of a late round pick that you'd never expect to become a really good NBA player that does.

And remember when everyone was expecting Carlos Arroyo to become the next top point guard after he led Puerto Rico to the blowout win over the US in the '04 Olympics?

I actually like mills. At the same time, no one is talking about drafting him with the number 2 or 3 pick. If you based his worth on what he did in the olympics, you woul have him going much higher.

Rubio is being judged on international play. Thats a slippery slope especially for a guy that looks like he may not have the athletic ability to play in the league.

One big difference though. Lee was always amazingly athletic.

Mills will be overseas in a couple years. He turns the ball over way too much. Isn't good enough to run the point in the NBA and isn't big enough to play shooting guard in the NBA. He's like the poor man's Steph Curry and Curry will be a career backup in the NBA.

Pop stuck with him because he was young.
And because he was the fastest guy in the NBA.
Is that Talent...? Parker made himself talented. He had no perimeter
game and was very weak going to the basket. Both
of those things have changed through very hard work.
And because of proper strength training he is actually strong now.


I dont know what the scouts say. Seriously I read nothing
about the guy except they say he is good. I watched the kid
on u-tube against inferior competition, and of course the Olympics.

He has very good, BIG, quick hands. He stops and starts, changes
direction dramatically WITH the ball with purpose (not playground,
I now wish to do a dance in front of you and go nowhere).
He sees the entire floor.
He can go to the hole.
He can intiate or direct an offense.

Can he fail? Of course. With the wrong team and wrong
coach asked to do the wrong things, sure he can fail.
Sap the confidence of a player like this, and sure you can
kill him. He is not a great athlete that will beat you physically.
He will have to beef up also imo, the first year will probably
be tough on him physically. More so than the older players
that are physically strong.

[quote=pgardn]Pop stuck with him because he was young.
And because he was the fastest guy in the NBA.
Is that Talent...? Parker made himself talented. He had no perimeter
game and was very weak going to the basket. Both
of those things have changed through very hard work.
And because of proper strength training he is actually strong now.


QUOTE]

tony parker is "strong"? P, you have to stop. Tony parker was a first round draft pick before it was fashionable to find the next great euro. He wasnt just fast. You can't start 72 games for a playoff team and just be "fast". Just stop. Please.

Tony Parker, or anyone else for that matter, can't "make himself talented". You either have it or you don't. You can develop talent and thus make talent manifest but it has to be there from the start. If you start 72 games your rookie year as a 1st round draft choice, you obviously have talent and you obviously have developed it to some degree.

Lets just talk about something else. :)

I'm not sure I am understanding using Patty Mills as an example of Euros (or Aussies in his case) not being good players? Mills was the best player in his league. He is a 6 foot 175 pound point guard. What exactly was he supposed to do? You do realize that they play 40 minute games in the NCAA? Do I have to start using Euro/foreigners that have been lights out? Pau, Dirk, Drazen Petrovic, Peja, Tony Parker, Hedo, Detleff, Manu, etc?

Rubio is a 6'5' point guard who excelled playing in professional leagues and the Olympics at age 17 and 18. Who else does that? Think he'd be heavily recruited if he decided to go to a US college this year? To say that the Olympics are exhibitions is ridiculous unless you didnt bother watching them. Hell Kobe played harder there than he did most of the regular season.

Who was expecting that? He wasn't even drafted.

Execelled? He didnt even start most of the time. The only reason he got big time in the olympics is because Fernandez got injured.

If Mills was 18 and 6'5" he would be a lottery pick. Rubio certainly has enough athletic ability to play in the NBA. It isn't a matter of if he can play, it is how good will he be? A good player, a minor star, or a major star. Shooting is something that usually improves as a player matures and can be worked on. He will become a better shooter. He will also grow and fill out. The guy has star quality.

We will see and i will acknowledge being wrong if that is the case. I am just leery of not particularly fast bordering on slow point guards that dont shoot well. Somehow that doesnt seem to work in the nibba. Maybe Rubio will be the exception.

What makes you think he isnt fast or quick?

[quote=dalakhani]oh good lord...
ok you are right, talented, I used it improperly.

Tony Parker made himself the best player the
currently have Spurs.
Hows that...

pgardn: And yes he is strong.

Dala: but he did not win the Iron man competition.
Glen Davis is strong, not Parker.

Pgardn: He is basketball strong in that he can now physically
bully to the basket, get fouled while making the basket, and
then step up to the foul line for and one...

I use the English language very poorly over the internet.
I rush, and I dont care much how I present arguments.
I will try to go slowly and show selectivity with my
sports vocabulary. I also spell very poorly, chop up sentences,
and generally run on. Too much math in my head.
A sickness that comes with Physics. I actually use to be
able to see words in my head spelled out. No more.

He'd already been in the league for 3 years at that point. That was when everyone was lamenting the death of the American point guard and saying that guys like Arroyo were the future of the position in the NBA. Oops.

Maybe there were just lamenting the death of AI's version of the american point guard? I dont know anyone who took anything out of that loss other than the US had to do a better job of putting a team together and that Larry Brown was poor selection to coach that team.

[quote=pgardn]Fair enough. Touche. Any way you cut it, Parker has been a wonderful player.

We will see about your boy Rubio. The crow will be on the plate for someone to eat come fall.

[quote=dalakhani]We will know if Rubio is a player by fall? Oberto is expected to re-up with SA, not Bowen.

[quote=Cannon Shell]I actually did not post this.
About Rubio.

I dont know if they have Oberto's heart condition
figured out for sure. He had said he would only play
for the Spurs with Ginobili. Those medical rules prohibit
info being given out, I personally think Oberto's condition
is still not perfectly stable.

Spurs must have another big man.
Maybe the Spanish team that has Splitter under contract
will go bankrupt during this recession.