Quality Road to Pletcher..
 

...is reporting this as "developing." If so, rather interesting.

Jeez. Similar to Lawyer Ron a few years ago.

:rolleyes:

dude wtf?

i know its there money and their stock, but i'm tired of owners yanking horses from the people who developed thier horses and putting them in the hands of the mega-trainers like Ass and Pletch.

-bt-

Jerkens isn't exactly a little guy, though. I agree that it's a bit surprising with the success Jerkens has had with this horse and a few of Evans' others, but he does seem to train a lot of fast horses that end up having problems (I'm sure I'll get ripped for this). I wonder how Storm Play is doing after they threw him to the wolves in the Cigar. . .

Storm Play has been with Pletcher for quite some time. He had cleared the N1X condition, won an overnight stake and last year's Cigar Mile, while deep and competitive, hardly featured a horse you should really be scared of. I didn't like Storm Play that day but I doubt you can blame JJ for trying him there.

What are your other examples of fast horses Jerkens has trained that have had problems?

NT

zaftig

Umm Zaftig. Desert Key. QR obviously.

I thought Jimmy Jerkens was a MEGA trainer. Maybe not in the way of number of horses but certainly in ability.
Jerkens is a very old school type trainer. He would be considered to some hard on his horses...He works them very fast, etc. ( im not knocking the guy, Id put him in my top 5 for all trainers.)
I read an interview with him. Last year I think in the Bloodhorse, 'he said dad taught him to train his horses hard and the good ones would respond'.

I don't necessarily disagree because you could have thrown in Mint Lane,
Tiger, Christmas Kid (all of whom might not have been that great but suffered dramatic falls from grace).

NT

Some more:

Vitruvius, Corinthian (who ended up putting things back together), Doremifasolatidoooooo, Mint Lane.

Then what was your point?

I don't think 'fast horses with problems' are exclusive to Jerkens - you could say that with nearly anybody.

Jimmy Jerkens trained the immortal Wranger.

I cashed a damn nice bet on Wrangler at 5/1 at Saratoga when Orseno trained him in a 35K claimer .. shockingly, he only managed a 7.5 length 110 Beyer alw win when transferred to Jimmy Jerkens for the first time.

Jimmy Jerkens also had Put It Back for a couple races while his father was in poor health.

Put It Back ended his career with 5 straight wire to wire sprint wins .. all of which coming with the great Noel Wynter aboard.

well, at least with Quality Road, he already fits ok with Velazquez' style, so that going to Pletcher doesn't mean the automatic jockey downgrade to JV or Prado that it means with many horses.

It kind of sucks from a politics standpoint, but I don't see it helping or hurting Quality Road very much

he's a good trainer don't get me wrong, but you don't hear owners switching to him with big time horses, like baffert, Ass, Pletcher, dutrow. Just my 2 cents. I guess evans thinks pletcher can better campaign a horse like QR for the future, but the guy has soo much stock like ass, how much time can he really spend with the horse


-bt-

I agree.

Jerkens also stated in that interview, that i cant seem to find online, that he would never have a large stable. He said he is pushing it with 45 horses.

it's a lot more prestigious to retire a 3yo under Pletcher than Jerkens

they have it up in DRF now as done


Mr Obvious says: Evans is big with breeding, and a lot of times when a breeding deal is all but finalized the big operations want to have "their" trainers train the horse out.

Then why tansfer the fillies??

interesting. Apparently there was a major decision to transfer stock

I wish Mr. Obvious would stop using my account:o

My point was that while JJ has struggled with keeping some horses that had potential sound but Storm Play should not necessarily be singled out as a bad training job.

NT

I don't think anyone said Jimmy was anything close to a bad trainer.

Storm Play made his first start in late August of his 3YO season and now hasn't been seen in going on seven months.

What Andy said. . .

I didn't think anyone said anything about him being a bad trainer but the argument was posited that he has had a great deal of "fast" horses end up with problems.

Storm Play was "thrown to the wolves" and all I was attempting to do was refute that notion. I know you didn't think much of Storm Play's chances in the Cigar Mile and neither did I, but I definitely don't think he was foolishly spotted there.

If anything, and I imagine this had something to do with the decision to move his horses, Jerkens is very conservative. I imagine after years with Mark Hennig Evans is in search of more instant (or any) gratification.

NT

Maybe the "thrown to the wolves" comment was a slight exaggeration, but the fact remains that something has obviously gone wrong with the horse.

The irony with this decision is that, after Evans' split with Hennig, he sent horses to Jerkens, Pletcher and Dutrow. Unless I'm missing something, it seems as if Jerkens accomplished more with the Evans horses that he was given than either Dutrow or Pletcher (i.e., Nite Light, Spritely).

Maybe the owner doesn't want the horse's lack of good feet exposed by Jerkens' 'old style' training methods? He can probably win some shorter races (Jerome, Cigar Mile), brilliantly, on talent alone, without being completely fit. Try to get him fit enough for 10f against a top class field and the feet may go out again.

Except that I'm willing to wager that that is exactly what they sent him to Pletcher to do. If this horse is healthy there is no way they aren't going to run him in the Travers.

I dont believe for a second that this would have happened had Quality Road been able to get better and run in this year's Triple Crown.

You must wonder given the very funny results from this year's races (minus Rachael), whether this owner is just bitter over having missed this grand opportunity at history?

Look at the results Jerkens has had with the runners he got from Evans when he went splitsville from Hennig.

And its kind of ironic one othese horses just won recently under the care of Jerkens (Giant Mover).

Timmy let's face it , this horse was rushed too fast too soon after the initial crack in the florida derby , it isn't JJ's fault that GP was a conveyer belt on Florida Derby day and the horse get hurt. He probably was relieved when the horse didn't have to go in the derby because of the 2nd crack . Could you imagine if that poor horse was forced to run in that peanut butter on derby day.

How many other horses got hurt on Florida Derby Day at Gulfstream?

i don't know , but , how many ran as hard as him?

I was moving that day so I didnt get a chance to watch many races, but I did see Big Drama and Phil run pretty hard in the race prior to. And its hard to believe Quality Road was the only horse to run "hard" that day. Dunkirk ran pretty "hard" until Quality Road was asked and burst away from him like he was a nickel claimer.

[quote=Gander]I was moving that day so I didnt get a chance to watch many races, but I did see Big Drama and Phil run pretty hard in the race prior to. And its hard to believe Quality Road was the only horse to run "hard" that day. Dunkirk ran pretty "hard" until Quality Road was asked and burst away from him like he was a nickel claimer.[/QUOTE]

that nickel claimer ran pretty good in the belmont

that should help is injurys..:rolleyes:

[quote=gales0678]Yes, he sure did. But for me, not good enough.
I wonder how Quality Road would have fared running that same style race Dunkirk did?

[quote=Gander]
i wonder if Quality Road will ever make it back again , it will be interesting to see