nyra / gate crew
 

Steve - any response from NYRA or anything on the NYRA website in what took place on Sat in R7 at Belmont at the start ?

For those that didn't see it when the gates opened the #7 was in the grasp of one of the gate crew members , the horse reared up and spotted the field multiple lengths. Outside of the eventual winner the #7 was the other speed in the race. Now the Linda Rice horse (#11)is able to get out on a loose lead. The#11 goes wire to wire and wins the race.

Nyra gives a refund on the #7 , but, that's little consolation to the p4 and p6players - they get moved to the post time favorite the #6 - who needed another horse to push the #11 on the front end . problem was the other horse was left in the gate.

So if you were lucky eneough to only play a pick 3 you got a conso. payout.

Is there any reason why NYRA can't refund a p4 / p6 ticket in this situation or at least pay a conso on the p4 assuming you had the other 3 legs?

The guy who makes a win bet on the #7 got his money back , but, the guy who plays the late p4 and had the #7 singled and hit the other 3 legs walks away a loser - why no refund?

How can this happen? the gate crew was flawless on Belmont Day from the races I saw when the whole world was watching , but, now on a sleepy sat afternoon we get one of these gate crew incidents again that affected the entire dynamic of the race.

Oh, this thread could get GOOD!!

Somebody forgot to yell "no, no, no, no, no, no!"

I swear I read this same thread already

If the fave had won would you feel the same way?

Once the #7 doesn't get out from the gate , is the #6 really still the favorite ???

That's not an answer.

How can this happen? Is that a joke? The starters have a problem you aren't taking into consideration... THEY'RE HOLDING A 1,200 POUND ANIMAL BY A STRAP OF LEATHER. What do you think the job is like? These aren't greyhounds being loaded into the box.

NYRA is the most generous racetrack operator in the country on declaring non-starters. It isn't even close.

The P4/P6 refund rules have been discussed ad nauseum. It's a difficult decision/situation. Refunding entire tickets is too large a negative impact on the pool. Offering a ticket with an alternate selection is a long term possiblility and requires support from the tote company. A conso is an option too I suppose.

I'm not sure what else you can do with this topic. If it's so odious, don't play the P4/P6 in states where they don't refund.

ok - me personally no - i wouldn't feel the same way

but do you agree that if you had a crystal ball and knew that a horse was going to get stuck in the gate , the odds on race would be different than what was on the toteboard - suddnely a lone speed horse would become a shorter price no, may even become the favorite 'cuse no one is going to the front with him

so on sat - nyra gives you the #6 horse because he is the favorite at post time , but , since the #7 gets left in the gate , and there was no other speed to press the #11 , in your mind was the #6 really still the favorite?

i think this is why it's referred to as gambling.

and how else could they determine who was the post time favorite than by what's on the tote??

steve - why can't NYRA load two at a time , wouldn't that help?

Fair enough. Since it has happened to me and I've lost b/c of it I know how you feel, but it's just one of those things....I remember being put up in DQ situations for large four figs too. I always think to myself, I lose the right to bitch when a break goes my way.

For the most part those guys do a great job. But as soon as something happens people start going crazy looking for changes to be made. But Dani is right, it's gambling. As least they declared him a non starter and gave you the favorite (whether you liked him or not you still had a chance). As far as the pace scenario goes, what if he stumbled coming out of the gate or the saddle slipped? Strange things happen sometimes.

Its a rare day when someone actually admits they
got lucky on a race.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...nyra+gate+crew

or

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...nyra+gate+crew

or

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...nyra+gate+crew

or

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...nyra+gate+crew

or

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...nyra+gate+crew

I'm going to try to make this point for the last time.

There are things we can control in the game, and others that we can't. The latter far outnumber the former. That's why the game is so difficult to beat. You just can't cover yourself when (seemingly) low probability events occur. However, to focus on the things that are beyond our control is to lose focus on what's important. When focus is shifted to what we can control, our decisions/opinions, and when we **** up we have no one to blame but ourselves, it quickly becomes apparent that we underestimated how difficult the game really is. And, when we also realize that the game itself is actually fair, the naivete of our initial perspective becomes apparent.

Repeat after me:

1) you can pick the 'right' horse and lose
2) you can pick the 'wrong' horse and win
3) you can pick the 'right' horse and win
4) you can pick the 'wrong' horse and lose

to only expect 3 and 4 to happen is to really miss the point

And this is why The Fat Man rises to the top.

Im the best at #4.:tro:

I'm with you Fat Man. I think that's why I love this website so much: there actually is LOGIC around here!

I wish some of that could permeate the rest of our society.

:tro: :tro: :tro: :tro:



I'm getting misty over here... Seriously. Great appraisal Fats. Great.

fat at then end of the day a lot of what you posted is correct , but , as you yourself knows everyone at the end of the day still has to "eat"

Let me say something else, you actually have a better argument in weather situations where they move a race to the maintrack late. That is a better argument for a conso than a gate scratch...**** happens.

In NY, if a race is moved from turf to dirt after the first leg of a Pick-6 or Pick-4 has been run, the race becomes an " all " for the purpose of that bet.

I could be wrong but that was not always the case. I'm almost sure years ago I was moved in a pick four to the fave....Glad that is now the case.

It was changed sometime in the last three or four years.

K, thanks that makes sense, I remember this at Toga maybe 5 or 6 years ago after a rainstorm therefore the timeline seems right....They did the right thing with that change.

I also believe four races have to be " run " for the Pick-6 to be an official bet. Thus, if three races came off the turf after the bet commenced, it would be a refunded bet. I think that's the case but will have to check.

NYRA easily has the best rules around non-starters. I quit playing P4s in Florida last year because the daily Gulfstream thunderstorm would move races off the turf late in the card and butcher P4 tickets. Florida also has the dumb rule that gate scratches in the first leg get moved to post time favorite instead of a refund.

Illinois has this rule also but they include P3's, I don't know of any other circuits that have it besides NY and IL.

Remember that these rules must be blessed by the Racing and Wagering Board in NY so NYRA may propose changes that help the bettor but if they don't get approval they don't fly.

Now that we've cleared that up, can you possibly explain (real question, not smart-ass remark) the extreme bias we saw yesterday? Was the track maintained in a certain way to cause the rail to be so good, and everywhere else so bad?

It made handicapping and wagering on yesterday's races less enjoyable.

I imagine trying to maintain a track after 37 consecutive days of rain might have had something to do with it.

The track maintenance crew does an amazing job. Sh it happens.

As someone relatively new to this game, it appears to me that when situations 2, 3 & 4 occur, it stays in my memory for about 2 seconds. However, when situation 1 occurs, it tends to wear on the mind for awhile. I am quickly learning to just let it go.
I had the 7 horse in both the P4 and a win bet. I let it go soon after the race because I realized that if I was the beneficiary of that situation I would have not thought much about it the next day. So why dwell on it when it pinches you? Down the road it will go the other way.
Just my newbie opinion.

In fact, I remember a line from the first Beyer book I read about a year or so ago. Not an exact quote but something to the extent of....you won't remember your big scores but your bad beats will haunt you forever.

It seems to me that lately when the track is drying out after periods of rain, i.e. going from good to fast, it becomes an inside speed favoring track as it did on Belmont day and yesterday. I am sure that Andy is in a much better position to confirm my speculation as I rarely get to watch races during the week and am judging from the weekend days I have been able to watch.

As I write this, I am looking outside my office window not far from Belmont and as unbelievable as it may seem, it looks like it is about to pour again!

:tro:
Excellent post.