Weekend Beyers (Rachel 108; Bird 105)
 

KENTUCKY OAKS (G1) - RACHEL ALEXANDRA: 108
WOODFORD RESERVETURF CLASSIC S.(G1)-EINSTEIN: 106
WESTCHESTER S.(G3)-BRIBON: 105

KENTUCKY DERBY(G1) - MINE THAT BIRD: 105 (Previous 3 Beyers: 80-81-74)
Pioneerof the Nile: 95 (Previous 3 Beyers: 96-90-95)
Musket Man: 95 (Previous 3 Beyers: 98-90-91)
ALSO RAN: Papa Clem (95), Chocolate Candy (86), Summer Bird (86), Join in the Dance (84), Regal Ransom (83), West Side Bernie (82), General Quarters (79), Dunkirk (77), Hold Me Back (75), Advice (74), Desert Party (73), Mr. Hot Stuff (71)

FORT MARCY S.(G3)-COSMONAUT: 103
CHURCHILL DOWNS S.(G2)-ACCREDIT: 102

AEGON TURF SPRINT.(G3)-CHAMBERLAIN BRIDGE: 97
HUMANA DISTAFF S.(G1)-INFORMED DECISION: 96
LOUISVILLE DISTAFF S.(G2)-MISS ISELLA: 96
BEAUGAY S.(G3)-MY PRINCESS JESS: 96
ALYSHEBA S.(G3)-BULLSBAY: 95
WILSHIRE H.(G3)-GORGEOUS GOOSE: 93
CHURCHILL DISTAFF TURF MILE S.(G2)-TIZAQUEENA: 90

EIGHT BELLES S.(G3)-FOUR GIFTS: 88
AMERICAN TURF S.(G3)-ORTHODOX: 88
NASSAU COUNTY S.(G3)-FLASHING: 87
KENTUCKY JUVENILE S.(G3)-AEGEAN 79



*Kentucky Oaks (CD): Rachel Alexandra (H. Wiggins/C. Borel) - 108
*Woodford Reserve Turf Classic (CD): Einstein - Brz (H. Pitts/J. Leparoux) - 106
*Westchester (Bel): Bribon (R. Ribaudo/A. Garcia) - 105
*Kentucky Derby (CD): Mine That Bird (B. Wooley Jr./C. Borel) - 105
*Fort Marcy (Bel): Cosmonaut (P. Serpe/J. Lezcano) - 103
*Panhandle (Mnr): Trust Or Bust (P. McClelland/G. Almodovar) - 103
*Churchill Downs (CD): Accredit (M. Maker/J. Leparoux) - 102

*Timeless Native (AP): Coragil Cat (G. Geier/D. Sanchez) - 98
*Aegon Turf Sprint (CD): Chamberlain Bridge (W. Calhoun/G. Gomez) - 97
*Humana Distaff (CD): Informed Decision (J. Sheppard/J. Leparoux) - 96
*Louisville Distaff (CD): Miss Isella (I. Wilkes/C. Borel) - 96
*Beaugay (Bel): My Princess Jess (B. Tagg/C. Velasquez) - 96
*Alysheba (CD): Bullsbay (H. Motion/J. Rose) - 95
*Senorita (Hol): Mrs Kipling (N. Drysdale/D. Flores) - 94
*Wilshire (Hol): Gorgeous Goose (M. Puype/C. Nakatani) - 93
*Tony Gatto Dream Big (Atl): Hesa Big Star (H. Wolfendale/H. Vega) - 93
*Edgewood (CD): Laragh (J. Terranova II/E. Prado) - 93
*Chris Thomas Turf Classic (Tam): Dinner in Odem (P. Wasiluk Jr./P. Teator) - 91
*Tellike (EvD): Flawless Gold (M. Chatters/N. Puello) - 90
*George Royal (Hst): Seminole Brave (M. Snow/I. Mosqueira) - 90
*Golden Circle (PrM): Slater's Peanuts (K. Smith/T. Doocy) - 90
*Churchill Distaff Turf Mile (CD): Tizaqueena (M. Stidham/H. Theriot II) - 90

*Need for Speed (EVD): Call Me Collect (K. Bourgeois/D. Dugas) - 89
*Double Delta (AP): Afleet Deceit (S. Becker/C. Emigh) - 88
*Eight Belles (CD): Four Gifts (S. Asmussen/S. Bridgmohan) - 88
*Federico Tesio (Pim): Miner's Escape (N. Zito/L. Garcia) - 88
*American Turf (CD): Orthodox (J. Glenney/J. Court) - 88
*Bouwerie (Bel): Sapphire Sky (D. Donk/J. Velazquez) - 88
*Nassau County (Bel): Flashing (T. Albertrani/J. Castellano) - 87
*Richard Radke Illinois Owners (AP): Voy Por Uno Mas (M. Yanez/J. Alvarado) - 86
*Hasta La Vista (TuP): Highland Games (L. Rollins/M. Hernandez) - 85
*Angenora (Tdn): Pay the Man (M. Feliciano/R. Feliciano) - 84
*Naked Greed (Crc): Prince Joshua (B. Rose/L. Colon) - 84
*Jack Cole (SRP): Some Ghost (J. Alley/K. Tohill) - 83
*Queenston (WO): El Brujo (M. Pierce/P. Husbands) - 81
*Snurb (Crc): First Passage (M. Wolfson/J. Bridgmohan) - 80
*Desert Sky (TuP): Star of Whitney (D. Sowers/R. Eikleberry) - 80
*Fury (WO): Woodsmoke (M. Keogh/T. Pizarro) - 80

*Kentucky Juvenile (CD): Aegean (W. Ward/R. Douglas) - 79
*Babst/Palacios Memorial (Beu): Left On Base (D. Rowe/E. Paucar) - 78
*Al Swihart Memorial (Fon): Miss Missile (C. Smith/B. Butler) - 78
*Silky Sullivan (GG): Feisty Suances (D. Vienna/K. Kaenel) - 77

Concerning MTB's 105.......

I haven't paid close attention, but I know a horse making his 2nd start, a surface change or adding equipment could improve 25 points. He was running in the slop for the first time. Is a jump like this rare or has it happened often?

Its relatively rare. A horse like this has an established patter of numbers and if you look, most of his beyers are in the same range. For him to jump 25 points in one race in the biggest race for a three year old..... is very rare

So where are all the people screaming"CHEATER"??? Come on people,this horse had a beyer jump no different than This one's for Phil,and every one started screaming that Dutrow was cheating.So what about Wooley?I can't wait to hear it.

I told everybody who would listen on Saturday at about 7:00 p.m. that the horse was on drugs, but have since come out of a julep-induced haze.

the media does not have an axe to grind with this trainer - it's pure and simple

So, taking that into consideration, I Want Revenge jumped 21 points in his move from synthetic to dirt. That would also be considered a rare jump?

I'm not trying to debate, just trying to learn a little from this. I realize it was a big jump in the biggest race for 3 year olds, but is this a tool to look at in other situations down the road?

If there were some Sunland - Churchill Downs angle, I'm sure we would have all been playing it long ago. There is absolutely nothing in this horse's pre-Derby form, at least to me, that is a lesson to be learned.

I agree, This horse was on drugs, no other reason can explain what happened

Well, Paulick does have an article up right now on his site about one of the leading Sunland trainers out-and-out accusing some of his peers of juicing. Obviously, I'm not seriously saying that Mine that Bird was juiced, but the improvement in form is absolutely baffling to explain with any sort of logic.

So what the odds that some 15k claiming horses from Sunland start to ship over to Churchill for some graded stakes races?

Surely that's all it is. It's definitely not because the trainer isn't an unapologetic confirmed career cheater. Darn that axe-grinding media!

so trainer that has a past violation/s is gulity as charged because the numbers don't make sense for the guy making the numbers

but now we get a jump by as many points in the biggest race of the year and their is no front page story , maybe the numbers made sense this time no?

Stop playing dumb. Obviously a guy who's made his living off of absurd move-ups is going to be under more scrutiny and get less benefit of the doubt than a guy no one's ever heard of. I assume TOFP was just the straw that broke the camel's back for Beyer, and I don't blame him.

but still the core of the beyer belief is that the numbers tell the story , if it is an oddity a number that can't be explained that it's gotch , you must be cheating

explain the jump to me joe , how can this horse simply jump up the 20+ points and win the ky derby?

Tizaqueena's performance was awesome from a pure guts standpoint.

god did it. jesus walked on water, and now this horse floated over the mud.

Horses can make big jumps for a variety of reasons. IWR's jump is much more logical and can be explained by the surface change from synthetics to what is his obviously preferred surface, dirt. There are many that believe that the Beyer's are always lower than they should be on synthetics (I believe that Beyer has recently stated that he is even going to try to adjust this) which can explain part of IWR's jump. However, since IWR's breeding was for dirt, his jump was not only logical, but led many, like myself, to believe that it was for real and not just a freak race. This was validated when he put up a big number in the Wood while in hand despite his nightmare trip.

MTB's jump is hard to explain. You often see a lightly raced horse make a big jump or a horse that makes a big jump from 2 to 3 years old, but what makes MTR's jump confusing is that he did have enough races and a Beyer pattern that would not lead one to believe that he could make such a huge jump at this point in time.

The real question to ask is whether you believe that MTB's jump was real and whether he can sustain it in the Preakness/Belmont. Many horses regress after such a big jump, many never even come close to approaching such a figure again, and I have to believe that MTB did not suddenly become the top three year old overnight and will run nowhere close the race he did on Saturday. There are others such as TFM that believe the Beyers are complete garbage.

I believe that MTB will be a huge underlay in the Preakness even at 8-1 or 10-1 relative to his actual chances of producing a winning performance which will create overlays. The problem that I have is that the rest of the field ran so badly, it is hard to make a case as to the horse that should crush whoever enters that race.

Show me where Beyer said:

You're the one with the axe to grind. Mine That Bird beat a neutered Derby field in the slop while saving all the ground. Maybe the Sunland numbers are inaccurate. There are plenty of explanations. But don't tell me we should be up in arms over this like we are with Dutrow, who's performed this type of miracle THOUSANDS of times and is an unapologetic cheater.

This is along the lines of what I was looking for. I had heard all the discussion about IWR's jump (breeding for dirt imparticular) that made his improvment in the Gotham logical.

Would it be incorrect to assume that MTB would produce a comparible performance the next time he hits the slop? Of course I realize that pace, trip, etc. would play a factor, but just from a raw handicapping standpoint, you would have to take a hard look at him?

Once again, I'm not doing this to try to say "MTB is a Triple Crown horse if the track turns up sloppy the next 2 races", but instead to look at using this angle for other races and other horses.

or mullins, who hit ungodly figures, got caught 'shaking, ran out of the DET barn because of it...and go figure, his % went in the toilet that month.

what does the rest of the field have to do with one horse going from 81 to 105 ?

how many times has dutrow runners tested postive , you would have people on here believe that it has been thousands of times?

do you even know the number?

approx 462 times.

Do you really think Mine that Bird was juiced? Or if he was really juiced he was the only horse in that race on the juice?

I think the slop was the main reason for his beyer jump.. and the fact he saved as much ground as possible must have helped.

Here's some Beyer jumpup numbers the rest of the Derby field have already produced in their careers.

Good young horses have a jump up. Can they hold it, repeat it, is it their new real level or was it too much and they are out, injured?

Mind That Bird, coming in with a good pattern, was fortunate enough to have his jumpup in the Derby.

Flying Private - 44-71 + 27
Hot Stuff - 71 - 96 +25
Mind That Bird - 80 - 105 + 25
I Want Revenge - 92-113 + 23
Dunkirk - 77 - 98 + 21
Summer Bird - 78 - 99 + 21
Hold Me Back - 77-97 + 20
Fresian Fire - 77 - 94 + 17
West Side Bernie - 84 - 101 + 17
Atomic Rain - 82 - 95 + 13

You are kidding, right? It's been every since 2000 that he's had at least one fine or suspension for an overage.

is that a fact?

i'm am not saying he was juiced , but , no one here has shown me proof that TOPF was jucied the day of his big jump either

scott - show me the suspensions/fines all of them every year is there a site i can look at?

actually I just typed a random number


there is no accountability on the internet..


but what about my other questions?

If Bird was on drugs do you really think he was the only horse in the race on drugs?

and dont you think the mud had more to do with the moveup?

If he was drugged in this race I'm sure he was drugged in his other races... and he still ran slow.

Its not like he was just claimed and moved up right away...

I don't have a full list but there is a lot of info in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...sportCat=horse

Dutrow's ARCI rap sheet contains 72 entries, including fines and suspensions in Maryland, California, New York, Florida, Delaware and New Jersey.
Several of those are for his own personal conduct; many involve marijuana. Others include: an alleged attempt to pass forged checks in Maryland; an attempt to provide a false urine sample "by means of an apparatus concealed on his person"; and a failure to report on a New York license application a 1991 criminal conviction in Nevada.

And he's been fined or suspended at least once every year since 2000 for doping issues. In 2000, a barn search in New York produced "an injectible vitamin which is forbidden." In '01, a horse had excessive Lasix -- an anti-bleeding medication -- in its system. In '02, Dutrow "failed to follow Lasix procedures." In '03, a horse tested positive for Mepivacaine. From '04 through an '08 fine in Florida, there were citations regarding Lasix, Clenbuterol, Phenylbutazone and Oxyphenbutazone.

He served a 60-day suspension in 2005 after two of his horses tested positive for banned substances and for a claiming violation. Then, in 2007, he served an additional 14-day suspension and was fined $25,000 for violating conditions of his suspension by having contact with his stable.

scott we live in america , no one here has show me any proof the TOFP was juiced that day when he jumped 20+ points , yet DRF felt compelled to write a story without having any facts about the horse in question. Again can you tell me TOFP was jucied when he won in florida that day and jumped 20+ beyer points?

There is a pretty good indication that Dutrow is doing something different with the horse than the previous trainer was and it isn't training related as the form reversal occurred way too quick for that to be the case.

Hes claimed in the past, a big reason for all his success is the dental work he does on his new horses :D

I know I feel better when I come back from getting my teeth cleaned but I dont think my mile time is all that much better.

so are you telling me TOFP was juiced in the race in question in florida?

that is the only explanation as to why he jumped 20+ points that day?

I think when you consider Dutrow's past records with these cases the evidence points to the horse being juiced.

The horse that was 3rd beaten 7.5 lengths in This One's For Phil's high Beyer dirt race ... was the horse who blew Mine That Bird away with a very wide sweep move on the far turn enroute to a Sunland Derby victory in his only other career dirt start.

again a past infraction is a past infraction, what proof do you have or does anyone on the board have the he was juiced that day? i would like to see it

The thing about Mine the Bird that is different than the Cali poly horses is that Mine the Bird did have previous dirt form; it just wasn't particularly good.

I'm going to say this just for you Marty

nobody has proof... it is all theory. u happy now?