Jon v Andy
 

Since there have been lots of comments regarding Jon I wanted to say something. I am sure I am in the minority here, but I applaud both Jon and Andy for taking a STRONG position on POTN in a public forum like ATR/etc. It is easy to sit faceless and nameless on a board and tout, but they both took a stance and both had reasonable assumptions to support it. They know that bozos like me are going to have smart a$$ comments after the race for one of them, and I appreciate their passion and courage. I am sure neither care what I think, but still felt compelled to say it. Finally, I am still not sure what to do with POTN but I am leaning towards Andy's view (and you all know I am a Cali homer).

I admire the passion on either side of the argument no doubt about it.

agreed, but Jon's is a LITTLE over the top by predicting a TC winner.

Then again, it is a lot easier to tout against a horse than to tout pro-horse as 19 horses will lose the Derby.

Well, at least in saying that he says "could see a TC winner" not flat out says the horse will win the TC. In any case I admire the guy for staying committed with his strong opinion, even though it certainly does get a bit annoying to hear him ramble on about POTN for minutes on end.

Very informative, for all of us that didnt catch the show why dont you clue us in on their positions.

http://www.thoroughbredracingradione...ents&Itemid=35

Quick Summary (In my own words)

John:

POTN Triple Triple Crown Potential
Will be better on dirt

Andy: (cough, cough)
No shot and won't hit the board, anyone who thinks other is nuts
Alluded that there is a reason he started off on Turf as opposed to dirt.

Thanks, Im listening to Johns dribble right now. How can you compare POTN to Point Given just because they raced in the same stakes. Does he not realize that they were two different surfaces and you need different running styles. And this polyrat will win the Triple Crown?:zz: I agree with Andy 150% POTN WILL NOT HIT THE BOARD! Save your money people the horse has no shot.

Will this idiot go into hiding after the derby? Lets hope.

I haven't listened, but from what I've gathered reading here, I think I FTFY.

He is far from an idiot. He simply has a strong opinion on the horse that he is going to back... It is the nature of the game we play. We think our opinion is the only one that is correct and all others are morons. We are putting money on it.

Hes an IDIOT

wile he is no idiot j.w has beaten this drum to death..andy is looking at realitys on the handicapping side.its a whole lot to ask for this horse to make the switch in surface and beat some others in here who could be better suited.

I wonder how much :$: he's going to bet on his triple winner on saturday.

hope he doesnt bet the ranch!!

Though... with so many quality horses out of the race POTN could run in the money just because of class.

I have no clue what this horse is going to do on Saturday, and that worries me when it comes to wagering!

serling towers over JW

In all honesty both should be commended; however let's be honest it's alot tougher position to be bullish about touting a winner than saying you are against one horse, regardless of the reasons. I think White is taking some over the top ribbing here. I respect a guy that is a public handicapper and is so vocal in his beliefs. The odds are against the guy and that makes it even more surprising he has put himself out there, but good on him for doing so. :tro: It's the one's that hedge that I have little time for.

The big question that I am struggling with is will the First Time Dirt guys hit the super. Last year I think their best finish was 6th. Would love to narrow down contenders for my annual stab at a big super.

Do you really think it had to do with synthetic to dirt or maybe it was because those horses who ran on syn sucked and everyone knew it.

I believe the only horse going from syn to dirt in the Derby who every won anything else of substance was Colonel John and that was a really bad Travers stakes.

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

Jon White is pretty solid IMO, he may be dead ass wrong here but that does not change a lifes work as a professional handicapper and gambler.

I know its hard to believe but even the great Serling once said IWR was a mediocrity, of course it was at that point I started searching out futures :p

The other guy must be Jimminy Cricket.

Even if POTN doesn't win the derby will it really resolve anything? He may not win because he is not fast enough, not because of the surface.

:tro: :tro: :tro:

Hes a wealth of knowledge...GREAT! this is his job, his field if work. I have knowledge also and dont even put in a fraction of time into it. If you are a so called expert its really not what you know or can recite about what happened in the past. In my book its about making smart decisions in future races and knowing all the angles. To come out and say something like POTN is not only going to win the Derby but win the whole damn triple crown is pretty IDIOTIC in my book. In no way shape or form does he have any solid evidence or prior history to go by that can support anything he says. Experts dont shoot off at the hip they are normally supported by evidence or fact which there is none here.

watch POTN go win the Triple Crown... now that would be funny.

If he does I will bow down and conciede that he is the greatest horse racing mind of all time.
Odds are I will not have to do that.

I completely agree

If he does win the Triple we will all have to sign a huge hallmark congrats card and send it to him.

so mouth... who are you going to be wrong about?.... and when you are wrong will that make you an idiot?... hope you do realize that even the very best handicappers are wrong more often than they are right

I'm sure many have picked Point Given, Empire Maker, Bellamy Road ...ect..ect to win the derby. They are probably still working in the biz, then why should it hurt one's rep when the business they are in is all about giving opinions.

Whatever the success or lack there of for POTN, Tuesday's Drinking Game will never be the same.;)

No, when I am wrong it wont make me an idiot. And yes I will post my picks before the derby. But I am not a handicapper on the national scene and I am not running around the country saying something as stupid as a horse that has never tried the dirt, never tried a mile and a quarter let alone a mile and a half is going to come across the country and beat up on some pretty decent horses in 3 gruling races in 5 weeks. It just doesnt make much sense to me. Unless of course this is the greatest horse of all time, which of course he is NOT

it will be fine just substitute one of his famous phrases

Tell me, Einsteen, couldnt this be said for every horse entered?

and after Saturday some of the horses that did run on dirt before the race will have excuses made for them that "they didnt handle the track". SO who the hell knows.

yes, it could. which is why people are going to question a person who so emphatically and persistently says one horse is going to do it all. especially when that horse hasn't ever raced over the type of surface on which all three tc races are held. in that regard, POTN is a bit behind horses who have shown ability over, and affinity for, a real dirt track.

It's a lot harder to take JW's position whether it be right or wrong. There will be only one winner and most will be 'off the board.'

Why yes it can genius, but nobody is touting any other horse as the next triple crown winner.