What people are forgetting about Flower Alley
 

Flower Alley lost by 15 lengths last year to Borrego in his race right before the BC Classic. He then last by 1 to St. Liam on the same track in the BC Classic.

people should not speculate about this horse until he runs poorly in more than one race. He was not 100% for the Whitney.

couldn't agree more

Some good points. We are speculating as to what happened and his condition. Your input brings another perspective and that's what we're looking for. tx much.

Same here, He seemed to be right w/ the pace most of the race and just got tired. He needs to be more fit. Sun King ran a very impressive race, Invasor was lucky to hang on.

Yup, he was right there at the top of the stretch. It takes a lot longer to get in top shape than most people realize, that's for sure. It doesn't happen in a month or 2. It takes a while. The competition is fierce and the horses are great athletes.

Sun King has a problem winning races. That is 3 seconds in a row. Invasor knows how to win. That is 8 wins in 9 tries. Three grade 1 wins consecutively.

Hoist.. you bring up some good points. Maybe as fan we're jaded. Either way, my gutt says somethings amiss. I guess we'll find out and I truly hope you're right and im wrong.

He's another 2nd away from being a confirmed hanger.

from the drf. I agree.

"Ah, Sun King. You never disappoint. You're the greatest tease in the thoroughbred game. You never do anything wrong per se. You're not a tail swisher, or an ill-behaved buffoon, but you just can't find that extra oomph to win the big ones. It’s a combination of the Perfect Drift ‘hang’ mentality with the fact that you’re facing good horses. After all, Invasor and Silver Train are quality Grade 1 winners.

You sat a good trip in the Whitney despite the outside post. Sure, you swung six wide turning for home, but you had every chance to pass them all in the lane. And you almost did just that. Every handicapper has one, or two, or three thousand horses that they are “married” to. I’m not going to divorce Sun King, but the sun is setting on his career, and the competition should only get tougher. That elusive Grade 1 victory may remain just out of his reach."

Don't think you can consider him a hanger off of this performance, he was in front after the wire. He was MOVIN at the end, that isn't hanging in my opinion, I also think Invasor was dead tired at the end, Invasor has some SERIOUS fight in him, and lets keep in mind that while considered a 4 year old, he is a three old really. Southern Hemisphere breeding are a 'year' ahead, when they are really not, if they makes any sense

I am wondering how long until Candy Stripes starts coming to the states, if he hasn't already, there has been a ton of good strong gritty horses that have come to the US from him...

But Scavs, its the totality of his career, not one race. He doesn't seem to want to go by. No, he's not facing tin cans, that's true, but sometimes a spade is a spade.

Invasor would now be a 4yr old.

Alright, I can see that point

Invasor is officially 4 years old. he was born August 3rd 2002

I know the January 1st rule, but still he has to still be developing, amazing horse

Can you say Cat thief, I am a firm believer that Sun King will be the best value in the Classic and win it!

I don't think it's fair to say the sun is setting on Sun King's career. I mean, he's only four, and he certainly hasn't been unsound, has he?

He didnt do much when he was here. He also seems to throw some conformation issues and the South American broodmare population seems a lot more "sound" than ours. Its not uncommon for stallions to be mediocre at best here and just "click" with SA mares and create internally competitive horses.

Southern Hemisphere horses turn on August 1. Northern Hemisphere horses on January 1. His birthdate really doesn't mean anything except that he was born after August 1.

He is an excellent horse. He knows how to win.

I would bet he finishes second and perfect drift third. ;)

Speaking of Candy, whatever happened to the infamous Candy Ride?

Oh those latin mares

:D :D

(I don't usually use comedy smiley faces but I figured I would try this time, since GPK will probably comment on this once he sees it)

I dont believe he has. I'll tell you what, if you ever doubt the quality of female family and its importance in a runner, look no further than Sun King's dam. She's quickly proving herself a stellar producer. Besides Sun King she's the dam of multiple G3 winner Ocean Drive, G1 winner Traitor, and is the granddam of G1 winner Peeping Tom, G2 winner AllamericanBertie, and G2 winner Hurricane Bertie.

SO Lame....

Peeping Tom...coming to a Penn National Gaming track near you!

haha We are the best. What can I say, slightly spicey and curves for days... that's until the first kid... then its all over! :eek:

How often am I lame Slot, not very...it was fitting I thought....perfect time to be tacky...IT IS MILLION WEEK, all is well

Standing at stud at Hill N Dale in Kentucky. Heard he was being only marginally received... but dont know that to be a fact. Just what I heard from someone who boards there.

haha :cool:

Figured kev probably wasn't around to give you crap, so I filled in as best I could. Lame sounded about right.

Sumitas,
There is so much truth in what you say.
It's just so easy to get down on a trainer.
Most folks don't know what goes into it. It's waves, not straight lines.
First is the diet. You kind of "starve" them...not really, but hay and a little grain. Short easy works to start building muscle. Then, as the appetite develops, stronger works at a variety of distances, hotter feeds. By the time the race comes up, you just hope that everything you've put into prepping for that race comes true. It's diet and excercise...hoping that when the horse reaches "peak" it's at exactly the right time.
So much can go wrong along the way. The horse can sustain an injury (sometimes difficult to detect), or some kind soul can show up with a ton of carrots and mints to disrupt the feeding program. We've all seen horses get hurt in a morning breeze. Wind sprints and gate works??? Lots!
In a "nut shell", good trainers have the savy from so many previous lessons that when the target race comes along, the horse is a "monster", totally pumped and sound...at the top of the "peak" (wave).
Even then, a stupid ride can happen, or a bad step...and all the effort that's been invested is gone like a discarded ticket on the floor.
It's a tough game. Not just for the horses but also for everyone that tries everyday to make it happen.
If it was easy, I don't think many people would even try.
Nor would the horses.

Just my two pennies worth.

DTS

Im surrounded by degenerate smart-asses. Im home!

I think it is fair to say the sun is setting on Sun King's career. He isnt a gelding so you know they wont wait too long to whisk him away and make money in the shed. How many top quality horses that arent geldings stick around to race at 5 and 6 years old anymore?

Breeding has really hurt this sport for the fans.

Very informative. Learn something new. thanks.

Surprised he isn't, he has nothing else to do but sit in bed all day

Your favorite, Tim...St. Liam. How about Artie Schiller? Zapper even ran once at five. I bet we see Sun King around for at least another year.

Not if he wins a grade 1, if he wins a Grade 1, bye bye to the shed of love

Correction - Horses in former British possessions in the Southern Hemisphere (Australia, New Zealand, South Africa) turn a year older on 1 August each year. In South American countries, like Argentina, Brasil, Chile, etc., they turn a year older on the more logical 1 July.

The big thing about second-half 3yos from the SH who race in NA as 4yos (Jan to June) is that they don't get any weight concession for their lack of maturity. While winning the Pimlico Special, Invasor was actually a 3yo but was carrying weight appropriate for a 4yo. By the time of the Suburban in July, he was officially 4 in both SA and US, although not actually 4. So now his official age in both hemispheres and his actual age all correspond. How Lovely.

The breeding aspect has always been there and im not certain its the real reason why fans are hurting. I think its more the lack of starts throughout a year. But, the argument can be made its all connected. True.

As for Sun King, I wouldnt be surprised to see him race another year if doesnt get hurt. Unless he really turns into a monster this year, his pedigree just isnt desireable enough for the big money to come from Kentucky. A Charismatic out of a (very good producing... but still...) Clever Trick mare? Not to mention being half to poor regional stallion Traitor who actually won a G1. Although, in Traitor's behalf, he had a limited oppurtunity and then was killed in a barn fire.

I think I can speak for a few of us when I say that while I may be a smart ass, I'm pretty certain I'm not yet a degenerate. Really.

Okay, you named 3 Slot. 3 out of how many others who get shed bound? Lots and lots. Back in the 70's and 80's it was more of a fan sport. Now as soon as you get attached to a nice horse, its wham bam, thank you maam. Whored away.

haha You're my new literary hero. Even if I knew that (which I didnt), I would never have been able to make it make sense. Does that make sense? :confused: