Talamo
 

I wonder if his riding performance today was enough to cost him the mount?

Mullins won't care ... but I'm not sure about the owners.

Everyone made a big deal about Talamo when he posted those good numbers at Fair Grounds in 2007 before he left for Southern Cal.

In FG dirt races in '07 - he was 66-for-354 for a good 19% win percentage. However - his ROI of $1.36 produced a 32% loss on the dollar - double the takeout. Very poor stuff.

I haven't been all that impressed with what I've seen of him out West either - I think he makes Joel Rosario look like Jerry Bailey.

Riders mean very little overall ... but it's probably better to take one less likely to screw things up when you can.

i only saw the race via the nj thing, so, what is it you saw that looked so bad?

you blame the start on him?

I never thought he was all that great even when he was the live bug rider, if he were replaced, I guess it wouldn't hurt the horse...Then again if Stu Elliot can win a derby, almost anyone else can.

Nothing about his trip was smooth.

My knock on him is not so much that's he's a 19-year-old ... I just think he has the numbers of a guy who is very overrated. And from what I've seen visually - i've been FAR more impressed with other young riders out West like Rosario.

One rider that does impress me is Daniel Centeno from Tampa Downs. He could be a factor once he decides to try a higher profile track.

No doubt he gained a lot from this race ... he took a whole lot of dirt and kickback and everything else.

Gryder just won the Dubai World Cup by 14 - so even mediocre jocks can stumble into perfect trips and they do. He just seems a little higher percentage to screw it and he's overrated from a performance versus expectation standpoint according to the numbers.

If anything Talamo shold be considered to ride for all IEAH mounts. Horse broke slow but the kid never rushed his horse an guided him throughout, shifted outside and never showed the stick. Very classy and patient ride by Talamo.

I have no idea why people blame him for the poor break.

I may be nuts, but I agree with everything you've said. According to the post race interview, the 1 horse spooked IWR in some way just before the break.

What the hell could he have done better after the break? He didn't panic, let the horse settle into stride and patiently waited for a hole to open. Yeah, he left a little to chance, but I prefer a jockey who trusts a good horse to put himself in position to win, over one who gets flustered and rushes a horse after a bad break or goes stupid wide to try to assure running room. Less is more on a horse like this.

I prefer a jockey with a long record of good rides in pressure situations - you can have all the 19 yo's you want who made a big name for themselves by losing at double the takeout from over 300 dirt mounts at FG.

I guess if I didn't have some mix of $20 and $5 future book exactas at fixed odds with IWR over QR, IC, OF, WSB, field and Patena ... I wouldn't much care who rides him.

Agree.

Beautiful win and I don't give a crap how unpopular this is but congrats to Mullins.

Great win... love this horse.

edit - Not deleting what i said but **** this was before the detention barn episode...

you are right on the mark , he showed a cool head imo.

Maybe they should put him on Stardom Bound instead of Mike"choke boy"Smith.:eek:

I'm not Mike Smith's biggest fan, but please elaborate on how a rider who has won as many big races as Mike Smith has can be considered a choker.

Stardom Bound is a mediocrity. Mike Smith had zero to do with her performance today.

Centeno rode at Monmouth last year. He is no kid, I believe he is 37 or 38 years old.

Did you watch the start of the Excelsior?

Wow. Smith's a choker? Tough crowd!

What did he do wrong?

Rode an overrated horse

her last few starts have indicated the gap between her and her peers was closing quickly. today is an indication that gap has been shut. it's no surprise to me that she lost today. if anything, i'm surprised she made it to april without losing. it wasn't smiths fault, it's no one's fault. maybe she's precocious like her sire and dam?

I wouldn't even put it that way. I don't think she was ever very good.

Have you ever noticed when Durkin or another announcer proclaim, "so and so is trapped behind a wall of horses" that they often end up winning? These horses see the traffic in front of them and wait; they aren't being checked by the rider. Invariably, a hole does open up and then they accelerate.

i don't either. but she was good enough at the right time to win a big race, and get her original owner a nice chunk of money. precocity doesn't equal GOOD, i never thought she was what some made her out to be.

That's fine, but you made this about today's ride, and I don't see what he did wrong. To the contrary, I thought he showed poise that's rare when a jockey gets left at the gate, then into traffic. Maybe that's because the horse already had the earnings and he had nothing to lose, but it was a slick ride regardless.

How could Talamo lose the ride after today? That's ridiculous.

The owners realize that there are many better available options?

Exactly

After spending the afternoon watching racing from all corners of the country....not many better options. Maybe Tony Farina?

Thankfully the world doesn't always work that way.

I would love to know, however, how Stewart Elliot was chosen for West Side Bernie ( not that he should have won ) while Ramon was left sitting in the room.

LOL. "Wanting" another jock because you have a vested interest is certainly understandable, but suggesting validity that he actually lose the mount because of today's ride? Come on. Maybe your emotions are preventing you from seeing how good, all things considered, of a ride he actually gave that horse today.

IEAH could be enigmatic, and I don't know if the original deal -- where Lanzman controls the horse -- still stands. His ROI at FG is irrelevant.

Eric

I think the last year Kelly had a public stable (at Monmouth) he was using Stewart. I was using him on a horse at Monmouth and I think I remember him getting some action from Kelly when Bravo started riding a lot for Levine. In reality, I would think they had no idea Ramon would be open when they gave Stewart the call. They also might have been thinking about the next race as well. Who knows.

Eric

i don't see why they would rock the boat at this point, they would have to be nuts to switch riders on IWR for the derby, no matter who is available. One of his strengths is patience, like we saw today, and that is a good thing to have in the derby.

Rosario has ridden just as long as Talamo has in America. Here's Rosario's yearly stats with dirt/syn track runners.

2006: 28-for-201 $2.57 ROI
2007: 128-for-841 $2.05 ROI
2008: 153-for-993 $2.13 ROI
2009: 54-for-328 $2.03 ROI

Career totals: 363-for-2,363 $2.13 ROI

And did they not just take Russel Baze off of Chocolate Candy - even though he had been winning on him - so Rosario could ride him in the SA Derby? Even though CC didn't win the SA Derby ... why not take any slight edge you can get?

Victor Espinoza has ridden in almost 5,300 route races since '98 - he shows a flat bet profit over those 5,300 races - he's won the Kentucky Derby before - he's the most physically gifted jockey of all-time. I'd rather have him than a 19yo who gets hailed as a great future star because he losses double the takeout at the FG - and actually gets praised for his Wood ride after IWR broke like an import with Jamie Spencer on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS I prefer a jockey with a long record of good rides in pressure situations - you can have all the 19 yo's you want who made a big name for themselves by losing

ask shug how he felt having the most expeinced jock and the best horse and losing 2/3 of the TC to a inferior horse

I thought the horse ran huge today. Talamo also did a great job not panicking either and put the horse in a position where he could win. But I also think that he didn't have any pressure on him either. IWR's ticket was already punched for Kentucky and Talamo was able to just sit back and relax and see how the race unfolded. I wonder if he would have ridden any different if they went in to the race know that they needed to win it.

Sunday Silence was clearly the best horse in the Derby.

patience by the rider cost easy goer the derby and Talmo could only have done better than the hall of famer in the preakness , easy goer never should have lost in baltimore

Sunday Silence was much the best in the Derby.

Easy Goer was lucky to even beat his stablemate and it had nothing to do with Day's ride. It may have had something to do with a wet Churchill track EG struggled with the year prior.

Pat Day did ride mediocre races aboard EG in the Preakness and BC Classic I felt.

medicore is being generous , he flat out blew the middle jewel on the better horse

I wouldn't disagree with that.

However, there is no way you could pin the Derby loss on Day.