More good news for horseman from CDI
 

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/il...rsemen-beware/

They just keep coming up with new ways to basically steal our money. Having ADW's AT the track? Some partner. Yeah keep blaming horseman for the issues...

Uh I'm the last guy to take sides with Churchill but this seems like an issue that was overlooked by the horsemen and now you're all going to suffer for it.

CDI
 

CDI is no friend of the horse trainers and owners.
Without casinos at these tracks we will see purse levels decrease significantly at CD and AP. Already started to see this happen at CD last year. If it gets really bad it will force trainers and their owners to pack their bags and go elsewhere:mad: ..... We also might see other tracks on the fringe go the way of Bay Meadows in the future....

Arlington's purses are set to grow 30% this year, this is an ADW issue that will probably never pass

And, in California, you can make deposits into your TVG account on-track, so this isn't new to the industry

If someone steals stuff from your house it doesnt make them any less of a criminal if you left the door unlocked.

How did the horsemen ever get included in these discussions anyway? Why isn't this an issue between the tracks and the owners? Aren't trainers essentially employees of the owners to some degree?

This is the exact thought that has caused all these problems. Until tracks realize that they all have the same sized dick and are a TEAM, nothing will change. To the tracks, there is a heirarchy.

One can't do without the other. ADW's need both tracks and horseman, horseman needs tracks and tracks need horseman

Horsemen includes owners I believe.

This is an ridiculous notion. Is your stockbroker an employee?

Perhaps if you understood the term "horseman" you would realize that the vast majority of horseman's groups included both trainers AND owners. In KY everyone that gets an owner or trainers license is a voting member of the HBPA and the other horsemans organization (KTA) is open to both also for $10 annual dues.

The issue at hand is the deceptive practices of CDI to funnel ontrack handle to their ADW. In doing so they treat us as competitors. The system is screwed up as it is, this makes it even more inequitable.

And if you notice that the heavy lifting in the slots issue in KY is being done by the horseman, Turfway, Ellis and Keeneland. Why is that not surprising? The fact is that it is a good thing as CDI would surely do or say something to set the process back as they have done before.

So what you're saying is the horsemen own the facility. Got it.

No the horseman own the product they are selling. Why is this a hard concept? The traditional method of splitting the proceeds of a bet is 1/3 to the track, 1/3rd to the horseman and 1/3 to the state. Under the tracks ownership of ADW's the splits are scrambled with only the track benefiting to the detriment of the other parties.

The informative answer.....

And the unnecessarily argumentative answer....

Yes and that happened because the horseman and the state don't have competent leadership. It's not like ADW's are a brand new concept.

Because of this epic incompetence the horse player always gets hosed. We're f.ucking sick of it. Stop being a bunch of f.ucktards and get your s.hit together. Hire someone to lead you that isn't stuck in the 19th century.

When you deal with a disingenuous group like CDI who acts solely in its own interests and in a manner inconsistent with the overall health of the game it is hard to get shi t together. They want to squeeze more out of the shrinking dollars instead of trying to work together with horseman AND horseplayers in developing new sources of revenue via realistic new bets and competitive racing. The culture of CDI is the same as the greedy schmucks on Wall Street that everyone goes nuts about. They are mortgaging the future of horseracing on them getting alternate sources of gaming. There is no other reason that they have developed the scorched earth strategy that they are currently employing. While I believe that slots are necessary for a state like KY to compete on an equal playing field with the surrounding states, it is scary to think that these people would sell the game down the river if they could squeeze one cent more out of it. The racing product at CD was seriously off last year and the early signs out already are that not much will change this year as outfits have already turned in stalls to go to other locations. IN Downs is slowly adding the casino money to purses or the decline would be even more dramatic. While it would seem like a good thing for a trainer or owner in the short term, it is a trend that will seemingly continue which will be bad in the longer term.

Ask a stupid question...

I'd much rather see the federal government ban slots and table gaming in all states except Jersey and Nevada. Ban the reservations too.

It's just sickening to think that Indiana Downs is going to have $35,000 state bred races. It's not right and it needs to be stopped.

Not that it is a bad idea but it is far too late for that

True. It's only going to get worse. Churchill will put in a synthetic surface soon. They're already sucking Great Britain's dick with that retarded prep race.

if it didnt cost so much they would already have done it.

They'll end up doing it. :wf

They're hoping the 40 or so track regulars that have intermediate computer skills will go the adw/on-track route to help pay for the new surface.

Hopefully they go with pro-ride. I prefer the surface to look like a river of dingleberries, not sand.

They wont buy a track from keeneland so poly is probably out.

My point is I don't think you are capable of saying or thinking anything positive about CD. A few weeks back you mocked their press release about testing for 100 different drugs and other safety measures before finally admitting you thought the drug testing, the core of the release, was a good decision.

Back to my original point, I just don't get why purse structure can't be based on traditional business principles. If CD only wants to contribute X to purses, then they have to live with the smaller fields and lighter handle.

And if the bettors continue to wager on an inferior product, that's the bettors' problem.

I have some great friends that work for CD and they dont have anything good to say either. When I came to KY, CD was a great place as far as being an owner or trainer. Between them and Keeneland, KY was a real move up from how you were treated in NY or FL. But that has changed dramatically in the last few years. Interestingly enough it has also come as the brass at CD has completely turned over and the horseman element in management of CD that was always strong has been just about eliminated.

I know you will be insulted again but you seem to lack the understanding that a certain % of the money bet belongs to the horseman. The track may take the bet but they do not own the racing product. This isnt like baseball where the owners of the team pay the players. They pay us our share of the money bet in purses, not what they feel like giving us. When they underpay, they have to make up the difference, usually the next meet with increased overnight purses. When they overpay, the purses generally are lowered. if the difference is not that great they usually make no move as it works itself out. The core issue is that CD is trying to funnel wagers to its ADW where they want to pay us a much smaller percentage for purses. They are basically trying to make money off of our take. The ADW is the only growth (though it is mostly just the same money being bet in a different manner) area in the business and we are supposed to be satisfied to take less? That makes no sense from our point of view.

Their safety measures are mostly lip service. Testing for 100 different drugs is a nice idea but hardly earth shattering news since there are at least 5000 known medications used on equines.

I have been based at CD for 10 years, won a lot of races and money there. For the most part the people who work there have been great to me. I have many friends who work there in many different capacities. But the upper management/corporate types who most likely have no idea who I even am are killing the racing there and probably dont even know it. Not to mention that morale among employees and horseman has to be at an all-time low.

When people were railing against NYRA and its management the last few years I just shook my head as many of those same people fully supported the management at CDI. As a horseman there is no doubt that the management of NYRA has a far greater respect for and desire to improve the sport than CDI. If any of this offends you let me apologize in advance.

a rather interesting customer service approach.

Ohhh might we actually bring up the word union.
Remember what the writers did to the Networks.

Ya know people got tired of watching reruns of
American Gladiator. And the writers came back
with a better deal. Inferior products dont do well.
So if people really care about good racing...

Getting trainers and owners together....?
Yes...? Or there just are not enough people
willing to form an "alliance" and slap the track(s) upside the head...

No, I understand that this IS the case. What I don't understand is why. Why does anyone have to OWN the racing product? It seems to me the best model would be for a racetrack to put up a purse for a race, and then make money off the handle after the purse is paid (minus expenses and other crap). All these guarantees about who gets what seems like it's complicating the picture.

I get paid by CD, and I am openly critical of them often. And I don't disagree with much of what you say. But I think a very pervasive problem here is that CD and the "industry" in general make so many bad decisions that when a good decision is made, everyone bashes it instantly because CD, or NYRA, or the NTRA, or the Breeders' Cup made the decision. In turn, people who make logical arguments against and criticisms of the "industry" get tuned out because they bitch about everything.

I just love when bettors complain yet continue to bet. NO ONE AT CD OR ANYWHERE ELSE WILL CARE WHAT BETTORS THINK IF THEY CONTINUE TO WAGER ON HORSE RACING.

Bettors have power that they don't seem to realize. Look at the Future Wager that CD offers. Handle has dropped recently. So they made changes this year by adding the exacta. Did it work? We'll see. But at least they are listening to some degree.

If bettors want track execs and whomever else to make changes, go play poker for a while.

doesn't your second paragraph contradict your first? and as for whether they listen or not, you don't have to wait til you lose your base to worry about how to give your customers a decent product. perhaps this is the mindset that brings about the constant 'racing is dying' comments-churchill and the other tracks and racing entities need to stay ahead of the game, not behind it. i would point to oaklawn as a case in point. everything has gotten better there, and it's probably because oaklawn has consistently attempted to offer a better product and has managed to find ways to grow their business. they're adding to purses, unlike many tracks right now. your approach would lead to beginning to bail water after the ship has already sunk to the bottom.

What I'm saying is, the people who seem to be in a position to instantly change things care about one thing: the bottom line. And if bettors keep wagering on the current racing product being offered, the changes we as bettors want to see are unlikely to be realized.

I agree that waiting is not necessary. But I'm not in charge, and I don't have a $250,000 salary on the line if a mistake is made. Unfortunately, the people we need to convince DO have something to lose. And since we keep betting, no one cares what we have to say.

We own the horses. The horses are the product. Do you really think that CDI wouldnt just run a bunch of cheap races and a few stakes on Saturday if they werent contractually obligated? Thier idea would be we will get great field size and the same handle so why pay out the big purses?

I rarely ever see logical ideas get bashed, usually just the ones that are either illogical or impossible to achieve.

In theory what you are saying has some validity. But CDI acts as though it would rather maneuver into getting a larger % of a dwindling pool and wait on the slots as its solution. Aronsen seems to get it from his recent comments but the whole Silicon Valley thing makes most people believe that their focus is somewhere other than racing especially after some of the lame ideas that have come from there and the impossibly hardline they keep drawing in negotiations.

Has it occurred to anyone that CD is taking this one step at a time? Perhaps they want to make sure they get as large a share of the pools as possible BEFORE they take steps to grow the pools. I mean, that's just Business 101. Fight to get the largest piece of the pie before everyone realizes how tasty it is.

At least that's how I see it.

No

I guess there is no cohesion among people
who have the same interests, but compete
against each other. Too bad.