Andy Beyer, Dutrow, DRF
 

I have never seen a news article written by a reporter for a publication about the response to a column that appeared in said publication. It seems like DRF is trying to offer some kind of apology for Beyer's column, which is ridiculous if that is in fact what they are doing. Dutrow's response to Beyer's column is not news. His explanation for the horse's turnaround IS, however. But DRF making Beyer's column the focus of this article seems odd to me.

I also think it's totally disingenuous for Dutrow and Walder to suggest that Beyer should not have written what he wrote without gathering all the facts or visiting the barns in question. As if Beyer would have snooped around and found drugs in the barn. Plus, Beyer's column was based on years and years of his own analysis of stats which clearly back up his suggestion.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101362.html

If you publish a polarizing or opinionated editorial, and are facing what someone could be thinking of as lawsuit territory, wouldn't you allow that someone to have as many column inches as they desired, if that would make them happy?

We'll see if the connections end up on ATR (I didn't get to listen yet today)

If Beyer is way off base and mistaken, the people he is accusing (especially after repeating his opinion on ATR) may have the confidence to take a big step against Beyer.

My favorite part was Marty Wolfson.

He wants Beyer to come down and visit his barn so he can show them all the legal treatments he does to improve horses.

He should be inviting Todd Pletcher and Bill Mott to his barn ... because Wolfson has made a mockery of those two hacks.

He's winning Graded Stakes with 113 Beyers sprinting - and winning million dollar races in blowout fashion routing - with a pair of horses who stunk when Pletcher had them.

Miesque's Approval goes from sad old claimer with Mott - two races later he blows em away in the Sunshine Millions Turf at 49/1.... a few months later he wins the BC Mile by daylight. A few months after that Miesque's Approval finishes 15th beaten 30 lengths on the turf in Dubai ... but hey, he did beat home last place finisher - former miracle claimer Lava Man - who was 16th by 40 in that same Dubai race. A couple horses who didn't seem so impressive racing without those precious legal meds.

However, I was sad to read that John Ward and Joe Orseno are upset.

Based on this, you might want to reconsider law school.

These kind of attacks drive me crazy. Have you ever met Marty Wolfson? I would bet that most who criticize him here have not yet they know for a fact that he is a crook. Amazing.

Paul

Wolfson was caught with a positive at AP a couple years ago on million preview day and had to give back the purse $$ and said he'd never ship another horse to IL.
Wish they'd have found that during the race, as that horse winning cost me all the bets I had on the race.

I assume you were referring to Riot's post.....as I searched this thread and that was the closest I could find to an " attack. "

Was something deleted?

This was the post that I was referring to. I respect everyone's opinion. However, when people throw our accusations with no personal knowledge, it is irresponsible.

Paul

I read that post a couple of times.....where are the irresponsible accusations?

How is pointing out that certain trainers, some of whom have been disciplined for drug infractions, are able to bring about unprecedented turnarounds in horses they just obtained and as a result some people assume drugs are involved an "attack"?

Find one false statement in Beyer's column.

I wrote: "If Beyer is way off base and mistaken, the people he is accusing (especially after repeating his opinion on ATR) may have the confidence to take a big step against Beyer."

Do YOU think we will see that?

I don't.

I don't get into pissing matches on the internet. They can't be won. People can say whatever they want about others they have never met. You apparently know him far better than I do.

Paul

You don't want to get into a pissing match, which I understand, but actually you are the only one in this thread that made unfair accusations. Don't you feel a need to answer to that?

Man oh man. Gotta love a 'drugs' conversation. Want to get a message board going, talk about drugs, jockeys, hilarious announcers, or bs horses. :)

The only people that know what is going on are the people themselves, and the people that possibly may be helping them. All of this is obvious statistical speculation, which can be considered strong. Personally I can only go off what I hear, my opinion is almost worthless when it comes to this topic.

I will say that the move ups of both MA and Its a Bird are quite interesting. Its a Bird couldn't win a race at Arlington Park last year and now he is winning 500k races. I don't know what he is doing, but whatever he is doing, it works.

This thread is exactly why all pre- and post-race testing, and the RMTC, should be eliminated.

Gamblers know who the cheaters are, and gamblers know the testing is an expensive waste of time that doesn't catch them.

Wow.

OMG Beth, this is wrong on so many levels.

Ya think? :rolleyes:

I like to see testing results to see who is cheating. Others don't need them.

He told me he didn't do it.

I have no doubt at all that's true :D

You may actually be part right

Your constantly referring to horseplayers as gamblers would be insulting if we didn't consider the source. I understand it somehow justifies your lack of involvement in this game to make that theoretically insulting reference, as somehow it places you above others, when in fact all it does is expose you as being petty.

However, having said that, you also demean yourself further by failing to recognize that a serious student of this game can identify when horses perform in extraordinary and, at least somewhat, inexplicable ways. Now, all of us also know that many things are possible, and hardly cry foul every time a horse runs out of its skin, however, when we see the same trainers ( and, no, I'm not naming names ) doing it repeatedly, with different horses, we see a pattern and are hardly jumping to any conclusions to be suspicious.

Believe it or not, many of us also benefit financially in these situations, however that doesn't stop us from also being suspicious. In fact, it are those very suspicions that lead us to these sometimes scores. Sorry to inform you, but it's not all sour grapes by losing horseplayers, but quite often cries for reform in an industry that we love, devote a great deal of our lives to, and support financially. I realize these are not concerns of yours, and that is fine, but do yourself a favor and stop lowering yourself to a level of insulting those of us that do.

What accusations?

Marty Wolfson sounds like a nice guy. I think it's very generous of him to invite Beyer to see "some of the treatments we give, legally, that can improve a horse."

My point was that Pletcher and Mott must obviously be unaware of these great treatments Marty is legally doing....as he has quite magically transformed horses from them - and other competent and respected trainers - into classy stake horses.

"There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them."
Charles Caleb Colton

Your ignorance is showing.

Here we go.

In the interest of full disclosure, I thought I would point out the second of your five posts on this board ( two of which are in off topic ).....I was particular excited to see it was in a " Happy Birthday " thread....one for Riot in case anyone is confused.

Um, Sir:

Did you ever see Miesques Approval in the paddock before the BC, Sunshine Millions, or one of the other stakes races he won? I mean see him up close? Put it this way, it reminded me of when Hulk Hogan played the character Thunderlips in Rocky III....took that robe off....you get the picture. Not to mention he was completely undone...I have never seen a horse act as insane as M.A.

Sorry to disappoint, Secret Agent guy, but that's not exactly a secret nor recent. Yes, when my friend Mike is at my house he will use my computer, and yes I make him use his own signon and not mine if he reads DT.

You might look at my posts from the past, where I've posted here when he was signed on, and my post showed up under his signon, and I've corrected it and posted it those were my words? (not Mike's)

And yeah, he's right to be pissed at your ignorant comments and too bad he didn't type what I heard him say out loud.

I've been a fan of this sport for a long, long time, and I certainly push enough money through the windows to have a very vested interest. I see the same situations everyone else does. That I dare to interpret them differently than you do, or even how many people here do - based upon my own knowledge, contacts and experience - well, get over it. You're free to keep commenting.

I don't get insulted to be called a gambler. You shouldn't be, either.

(checking three times to make sure I am signed on under my own account)

That would be wrong. The ruling was overturned on the trace levels of Class 4 medications isoxsuprine (blood flow promotion) and naproxen (equine aspirin) for which Can't Beat It tested. And additionally, Illinois changed their threshold rules to be in line with the rest of the country's racing jurisdictions.

someone once said that if you told them they were cheating - 60,000 people would line up to try and figure out with who.

Very true statement. Wolfson had a fit when this went down and 'vowed to never return to the State'. I think this year he ran a horse in a stakes at Arlington and their was an article about him returning.....