HEGARTY: November handle down 9.7%
 

http://www.drf.com/news/article/100311.html
November handle down nearly 10%..

Now, how much of that was lack of access (Churchill/Hollywood) is the question...

Interesting question...

November's decline is 9.70% versus the year-to-date of 6.17%. My guess is the election discussions, economic headlines, holiday season, rising unemployments rates etc. is more of a contributing factor than signal distribution. Worded another way, are the distribution woes worth the $104 million decline year-over-year?

Speaking for myself, who is the average casual player, signal distribution has EVERYTHING to do with my handle decline.

Limited or no access to CRC, CD, OSA/HP

And I'm sure you're not alone. It's very tough to gauge because virtually everything measureable in our society and economy right now is down. I think there are a lot of individuals like yourself who have backed-off as a result, but at the same time, I'm sure there are plenty who just find another track to play.

I think its definitely polytrack

I believe for a week last month that there was this huge handicapping contest on line somewhere. The horse racing world so abuzz and people were following it so intently that they stopped betting for the entire week. I can't believe that there was no mention of it around here.

I think that number is somewhat skewed by offshore wagering. Many of the horseplayers I know, bet through Diamond Sports or some other offshore book. As a resident of the great state of Missouri, I have no choice but to go offshore, but I know of several guys who play $10k to $15k a week in states where they could use TwinSpires or Xpressbet, but don't because of the rebates and no taxes.

no chance. polytrack makes every horse impossible to eliminate. when every horse has a good chance to win it means more handle not less. plus you always have to use the all button in your exactas if you can afford em.

Same here.

My handle is down 100% because of my disgust with the ADW situation.

For me, it has nothing to do with the economy, the election, the weather, or anything else that the industry can cook up as an excuse....it is ALL signal distribution.

agreed..they are killing themselves..at least nyra is hooked in.or it would be a total cluster f

I don't believe that the tracks or the horsemen recognize the value and impact of the ADW players

I can't bet the races -
I don't wach them. I didn't know Churchill was running 90% of the time it was.

Did they shutter Calder? might as well

Actually, it's the other way around... The intensity of their confrontation indicates they completely recognize the value and impact of the ADW platform system and its' long-term importance. The battle over the smallest incremental percentages confirms that. Both parties know that their revenue is going to be coming more and more from ADW, and any ground lost now will never be reclaimed.

The economy has definitely affected my playing this year in that I'm basically enjoying a double workload due to downsizing and don't have near enough time to handicap as I usually do.


I will figure out a way to make sure I'm playing Tampa daily though :cool:

The battles have been going on for too long now and many players are turning away in frustration. The tracks may be losing more ground than they realize.

The ADW debacle is just that. The fact that there has been an economic downturn only puts a little lipstick on the pig so to say. The industry seems content with putting itself at a distinct disadvantage in terms of ADW.

I like to compare the whole ADW situation to specialty retailers about 8-10 years ago. The web provided a whole new mechanism to bring their products to customers. To survive and thrive, businesses needed to augment their in store product with online shopping. Horse racing has long faced a steady on track live handle decline. The web provides an enormous opportunity for growth to grow handles, increase purses, etc...not everyone can get to an OTB, not everyone has a local greyhound track to wager at.
Just like not everyone who wanted Gap jeans or American Eagle gear could get to a store. Bettors can not get to a window to wager.

The virtual "betting window" is such a huge opportunity, where if done correctly, opens so many avenues to consumers. Just like online shopping opened doors to many shoppers. Retailers do not shut off taking orders anywhere BUT the state where their headquarters is. Why on earth do horseman groups do so?

Would retailers only allow online consumers shop for pants on Black Friday? Not shirts, not socks, not shoes, just pants. What a insane statement that is. But that horse racing equivalent is the fact that online consumers could not bet the Kentucky Derby card this year with the exception of the race itself. Racing's biggest day on it's most grand of stages.

Most people who want to bet can find their way around ADW disputes, whether it be on track bets, off shore, simulcast, OTB, whatever, and that many sustain for awhile. But with out complete growth in ADW the sport will always be short changing itself. Not to mention it will always continue to piss off some of the sports biggest supporters.

Might explain why I'm watching Penn National on twinspires.com right now, playing the pick-4.

Don't fret I have 5 tickets alive in it haha ;)

First..minor point, but ironically, this is probably a good time for this to be happening. While the ADW situation is certainly contributing to the handle decline, it is probably affecting a lesser percentage than if business were booming, relatively speaking.

Second, the above analysis just isn't comparable. Retailers control their own profit structure when they sell on line.Even if they sell through Amazon or a third party, they still determine their profit margin. To Steve's point, this fight is because horseman, tracks and ADW suppliers DO understand what is at stake. It is narrowminded to just suggest that the Horseman are at fault for not accepting what the tracks and ADWs want. There will always be a symbiotic relationship between the three factors, but for the horseman ( and we're not talking Pletcher and Assmussen here) do you really think they are losing sleep because the bettor can't wager on CD? If the deal in place doesn't make financial sense in the first place, then why continue to support a losing cause?

To this point, I think racetracks view the industry as a pyramid where horseman and breeders view the industry like a triangle (in terms of how they view power)

Huh?

TFM has a point

No, I don't think any horseman really care who can and who cannot bet on what and where. I'm not even saying it would be nice if they did. But, no symbiotic relationship can survive long term when the brunt of neglect is put on the consumer. That can't be denied. You cannot continue to kick the dog in the head and just expect it will return every time...just to likely get kicked again.

That's the issue. The parties that squabble DO understand the importance and proceed to bungle the best way to take advantage of it and the ideas to move to an end goal have included high levels of exclusion and lost money. If those parties with their hands in the pot don't lose sleep over it now, that's fine, but if it continues, they likely will.

They need to agree on the long term arrangement, and soon. If they don't, the game will be imperiled to a degree for a long period in the future.

As Carl Sagan used to say about the U.S. and U.S.S.R with regard to nuclear weapons: "It's like two sworn enemies standing waist-deep in a room full of gasoline arguing over how many matches they each have."

The analogy fits in that none of the vital participants are concerned with the health of the whole industry enough to have it impact their own profit motive, and that produces an irrational result.

What exactly should the horseman do then? Accept a bad deal? Complaining about something is easy but actually coming up with an answer that is practical considering the circumstances is tough. Complain about the horseman all you want but the tracks (CDI especially) are the ones that dont want to make a fair deal, hiding behind the untruth that their ADW's would be unprofitable under the horsemans plan and that the horseman are to blame. Horseman simply want a similar cut of an ADW bet that they get from other types of bets. The tracks want to keep a greater %. You are the direct customer of the track. Bitch at them to make the deal.

I'm pretty sure I said I think the horseman don't care who can bet what and where. They shouldn't. That's not their concern. But it eventually will become their concern if things stay stagnant. It will become the track's concern, bettors, etc...

I'm not trying to come off as anti-horseman, I don't buy into the notion that the tracks are in the right. The tracks and their "sky is falling if we accept the horseman's plan" is laughable.

But that doesn't excuse the parties as a whole from blame in the exclusionary tactics that affect the consumer. It doesn't matter who is at fault, because everyone's fingerprints are on the mess. If I could blame the liberals on this one, I would, but for once they are not responsible.

Many horseman are very aware of the bettors complaints as many are major players themselves and all the players in the industry are partly to blame for the current mess. However the horseman are looking at the only growth area in wagering (ADWs) and seeing the tracks attempt to capitalize on that growth to the detriment of the horseman. If CDI in particular refuses to come to the table and allows its players to continue to be shutout from they are the ones who should bear the brunt of the players unhappiness. The horseman are eager for a deal and have been since day one but CDI believes it can intimidate, sue and slash purses in order to get the unfair deal that it wants. Remember that the horseman have taken major cuts in purses at CD and Calder so the dispute is causing them to lose money at the worst possible time. However the disgraceful tactics of CDI have caused the KY horseman especially to further band together and refuse to take another bad deal. There were empty stalls at CD and CDT this fall which is a bad sign for CDI who many in the state believe are the major holdup in KY getting a slots deal.