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-   -   Curlin and Big Brown...JUST SAY NO! (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24975)

richard burch 09-10-2008 08:05 AM

Curlin and Big Brown...JUST SAY NO!
 
In todays NY Daily News a match race between the 2 horses is being talked about after the Breeders Cup. Very Stupid.

Isn't this a dangerous proposition? Why would you risk your horses health to satisfy an ego trip? It would be much better and safer to see them race in a 6+ horse field against other good horses. Match races do not show who is the "better" horse because it is not normal race conditions. It just puts more stress on the horse and jockey to win at all costs.

I will appeal to Jess Jackson because he seems to be the more rational of the two participants. Please don't take Dutrows bait. The Jackson family certainly doesn't need the money. I hope he remembers Ruffian.

blackthroatedwind 09-10-2008 08:26 AM

Why exactly is a match race more risky than any race? I don't get it.

CSC 09-10-2008 08:54 AM

A match race didn't hurt Seabiscuit or War Admiral, nor did it hurt the game. I can't understand why anyone who loves horseracing or sporting events would be against this idea. I just find it hard to believe it will happen.

slotdirt 09-10-2008 09:10 AM

Just because Ruffian went down in a match race doesn't mean match races are altogether bad. Should we stop running the Preakness, Derby, Breeders Cup Distaff, CompUSA Dixie, or $7500 claimers on a Wednesday at Timonium, because horses have all broken down in those races in recent years as well.

VOL JACK 09-10-2008 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard burch
In todays NY Daily News a match race between the 2 horses is being talked about after the Breeders Cup. Very Stupid.

Isn't this a dangerous proposition? Why would you risk your horses health to satisfy an ego trip? It would be much better and safer to see them race in a 6+ horse field against other good horses. Match races do not show who is the "better" horse because it is not normal race conditions. It just puts more stress on the horse and jockey to win at all costs.

I will appeal to Jess Jackson because he seems to be the more rational of the two participants. Please don't take Dutrows bait. The Jackson family certainly doesn't need the money. I hope he remembers Ruffian.

Dude, are you serious? Its like saying Kobe and Lebron shouldnt play a game of 1 on 1 because they are more likely to get hurt, than if they played in a team setting.
There are match races that take place everyday at every track, There just happens to be other horses on the track.

LIE AH just wants a match race because they know its there only shot to beat the champ.

CSC 09-10-2008 09:35 AM

No one is more sad than I when any horse breaks down, however I hope this doesn't sound too esoteric.... I'm sure god didn't create horses with the intention of them being put in a petting zoo...they have to do what they were created for.

The Indomitable DrugS 09-10-2008 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard burch
I hope he remembers Ruffian.

They shouldn't have it on a dirt surface either. Doesn't anyone remember Barbaro?

richard burch 09-10-2008 09:52 AM

disregarding injuries, quite frankly there is little drama in a match race. there are no pace setters, no stalkers and no closers. certain horses need the right scenerios and fractions to win. i dont believe it would show who the superior horse is, so why do it?

I am not saying "don't race".

I am saying "race under normal conditions".

richard burch 09-10-2008 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK
Dude, are you serious? Its like saying Kobe and Lebron shouldnt play a game of 1 on 1 because they are more likely to get hurt, than if they played in a team setting.
There are match races that take place everyday at every track, There just happens to be other horses on the track.

LIE AH just wants a match race because they know its there only shot to beat the champ.

the difference is that if lebron breaks his ankle they dont euthanize him....DUDE!

The Indomitable DrugS 09-10-2008 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard burch
I am saying "race under normal conditions".

Big Brown obviously gains a tactical advantage if the meeting comes in the form of a match race. He gets to make his own pace unpressured

I'd take a healthy Monterry Jazz or Commentator and the odds over both horses in a match race.

richard burch 09-10-2008 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
They shouldn't have it on a dirt surface either. Doesn't anyone remember Barbaro?

yes i remember...his picture is next to my name.

SCUDSBROTHER 09-10-2008 11:37 AM

If you really have your horse ready, then why would you only want to beat one horse(and in a race that will never be held again.) Wouldn't you just race in the biggest races you can find? A great horse should be able to beat good horses on any surface (even if he just tolerates the surface.) If he can't, then he is just another good horse.

The Indomitable DrugS 09-10-2008 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
A great horse should be able to beat good horses on any surface (even if he just tolerates the surface.) If he can't, then he is just another good horse.

An ordinary horse should be able to beat mediocre horses on any surface. If he can't, then he is just another Yankee Bravo.

mes5107 09-10-2008 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard burch
the difference is that if lebron breaks his ankle they dont euthanize him....DUDE!

I think he is saying that a match race presents no more probability of injury than a race with a larger field. Whether or not a horse has a catosrophic injury in a match race or a race with a full field, he will still be euthanized.

Indian Charlie 09-10-2008 01:30 PM

While match races are a clear danger to the two horses in the race, I think people are missing what's really dangerous for a horse.

That's when they run by themselves, in workouts. There are workout fatalities on a daily basis. These are what should have a stop put to them.

cakes44 09-10-2008 01:55 PM

Put a stop to workouts?

Indian Charlie 09-10-2008 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44
Put a stop to workouts?

END THEM NOW!

richard burch 09-10-2008 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
If you really have your horse ready, then why would you only want to beat one horse(and in a race that will never be held again.) Wouldn't you just race in the biggest races you can find? A great horse should be able to beat good horses on any surface (even if he just tolerates the surface.) If he can't, then he is just another good horse.

nice reply...finally, someone who understands.

Bobby Fischer 09-10-2008 03:58 PM

OMG
 
***THOROUGHBRED CHAMPIONSHIP!***

***MATCH RACE OF THE CENTURY***


CURLIN
vs.
BIG BROWN

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2008

Gulfstream Park Racetrack
LIVE ON PAY-PER-VIEW
9:00PM ET/ 6:00PM PT



To wager on this event sign up now on MATCHRACE.COM.
5% Rebate on all losses. No fees.
50+ available tracks DAILY.


BUDWEISER
DODGE
KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN
TACO BELL
MATCHRACE.COM


Quote:

Originally Posted by richard burch
nice reply...finally, someone who understands.


richard burch 09-10-2008 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer
***THOROUGHBRED CHAMPIONSHIP!***

***MATCH RACE OF THE CENTURY***


CURLIN
vs.
BIG BROWN

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 2008

Gulfstream Park Racetrack
LIVE ON PAY-PER-VIEW
9:00PM ET/ 6:00PM PT



To wager on this event sign up now on MATCHRACE.COM.
5% Rebate on all losses. No fees.
50+ available tracks DAILY.


BUDWEISER
DODGE
KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN
TACO BELL
MATCHRACE.COM



i want a $1 exacta box.

Danzig 09-10-2008 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Why exactly is a match race more risky than any race? I don't get it.

good question, i don't either.
every match race involving top horses came out fine for decades as far as i know. seems that one race is responsible for every match race/filly vs colts debate out there.

westcoastinvader 09-10-2008 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
good question, i don't either.
every match race involving top horses came out fine for decades as far as i know. seems that one race is responsible for every match race/filly vs colts debate out there.


No logic to explain behind my sentiment, but I would just find a match race boring.

Really.

Match races are not the way I have pictured or enjoyed this sport in my lifetime.

One on one horse races are for a different fandom, time and place.

Danzig 09-10-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader
No logic to explain behind my sentiment, but I would find a match race boring.

Really.

Match races are not the way I have pictured or enjoyed this sport in my lifetime.

One on one horse races are for a different fandom, time and place.

they may be boring, i remember watching one a few months ago at calder, all but two horses scratched.
the excitement generated would probably be all pre-race if these two were to face off. i just disagree that matches shouldn't happen due to any safety issues. matter of fact, they're probably safer than a full field-how often have we seen when several horses pay a price when the lead horse breaks down?

cowgirlintexas 09-10-2008 11:28 PM

I think in the "good 'ole days" they were exciting and thousands would flock to see the race.. In todays times, I just don't see that happening.. It wold be like "Yeah, o.k..who won".. next race... I don't think that there would be any greater chance of one or the other breaking a leg either just because it was a match race..Unless of course there was something wrong with one of them before they ever stepped foot on the track. Which in this case.. could be either or at this point.

GBBob 09-11-2008 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
You really think a match race between Curlin and Big brown would elicit a response of "Yeah ok who won," from people?

I kinda' do...It's obviously the wrong race for a handicapper, but forgetting that most "people" have never seen or heard of a match race, it might be interesting...to them..

hrfan 09-11-2008 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Well i'm sure people that don't follow the sport wouldn't care. But they don't care to begin with. Anyone that follows, or even knows a little about the sport would care I think. I see it as only helping the sport if they were to meet up. They are the 2 biggest names in the game right now. It's not like we're talking about a match race at Turfway in December.

Commentator is a pretty big name in the game !

hrfan 09-11-2008 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Go ask 10 strangers if they have ever heard of big brown or Curlin. Then ask them if they have ever heard of Commentator and get back to me.

We were not only talking about stangers... fans of the sport, know Commentator, and they know him in a big way.
3 horse race 1 1/8 at belmont... Commentator, Curlin and Big Brown who wins ?

hrfan 09-11-2008 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Who cares who wins? The discussion was about a match race between BB and Curlin. There is no doubt Big Brown and Curlin are the 2 biggest and most recognizable names in US racing. I'm a big fan of Commentator, but he isn't bringing crowds to see him like the other 2 do. try and follow along.

he should !! he is turning into a legend. i will be at going to Mass. to watch him this Saturday, since your a huge fan you should come.

hrfan 09-11-2008 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Save me a seat on the bus with you.

no bus here.

Coach Pants 09-11-2008 01:09 AM

Have it at halftime of the NFL Sunday night game.


I need to sleep. Help.

hrfan 09-11-2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrfan
he should !! he is turning into a legend. i will be at going to Mass. to watch him this Saturday, since your a huge fan you should come.

excuse me, next sat.
but your still invited

hrfan 09-11-2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
FTFY

your the man around here, you really are.

Coach Pants 09-11-2008 01:12 AM

no your are.


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