I admit...
 

that I thought the "Win and your in" concept was redundant and pretty stupid. There are virtually no horses that win these types of races that couldnt run in the BC anyway. And really I dont think many people pay much attention to the whole program anyway. But I am really interested to find out what this quote means by Hayward form the TU piece...


"The first Saturday of the meet was top heavy with stakes races because of the Breeders' Cup Win And You're In promotion. The first Spa Saturday featured the Grade I Whitney, Grade I Go for Wand, Grade I Diana and Grade II Vanderbilt.

That won't happen next year. Hayward said the Breeders' Cup people already have told him there will be no Win and You're In here.

"We were told they aren't going to do any races at Saratoga or Arlington in the summer," Hayward said."


So my question is are they scrapping the program or is the Arlington Million, Secretariat, Beverly D and Saratoga stakes excluded from the program?
This will be interesting for sure.


http://timesunion.com/AspStories/sto...ategory=SPORTS

didn't they say last year that the win and you're in races were on espn and its parent company, abc? who will be televising the four races you said are on the outs next year? maybe that has something to do with it...are all of the ones included in the program on those two stations only this year? i haven't paid attention to who is televising what, which is why i ask...

I'll bet that since they made it two days, they'd want someone to televise both days and no way that abc cuts either the soap operas on Friday nor either cutting college football on Saturday. They're probably renegotiating the TV rights somehow. ABC then ESPN's almost always done the million. First was on Wide World of Sports (like Jim McKay would turn down broadcasting a horse race).

I am not sure how much Breeders' Cup people are interested in this concept. We received what amounted to a form letter for winning the race in Philadelphia. The BC rep at the track asked me if we were going to take Attire out the Breeders Cup and I said I doubt it. He asked why and said it won’t cost anything and then I had to inform him that the Win and Your means nothing, you still have to pay all the fees, the same as any horse that enters.
I think the win in your in day at Saratoga did nothing to help the track. I hope they go back to the old structure next year.

if that's the case, then it's just a bunch of trumped up hype that should be gone anyway. If you win and you're in, that should cover the gate fees, etc.... but unfortunately, that also makes sense.

it really is a silly concept, since if you're not already nominated, you win and have to pay thru the nose to get in. it would be different if it actually got you in the race without having to go thru all that.
yeah, like that's gonna happen.

Amen[quote=Norfolk]I am not sure how much Breeders' Cup people are interested in this concept. We received what amounted to a form letter for winning the race in Philadelphia. The BC rep at the track asked me if we were going to take Attire out the Breeders Cup and I said I doubt it. He asked why and said it won’t cost anything and then I had to inform him that the Win and Your means nothing, you still have to pay all the fees, the same as any horse that enters.
I think the win in your in day at Saratoga did nothing to help the track. I hope they go back to the old structure next year.[/quote]

My first thought is that they wouldn't scrap the program this fast. They've spent a lot on promoting and advertising it so I don't think they'd give up on it yet. So in trying to figure out what could happen, I came up with this possible situation. As you said earlier, the races they were using, those winners were virtually assured of getting in anyway so making them "Win and You're In" basically was pointless. So maybe what they will do next year is make some of the less prominent races into program races. This MIGHT have a positive effect. While top races at a track like Saratoga or the fall Belmont meeting don't need to add extra incentive to attract top horses, other races do. By adding the "Win and You're In" to some second tier races, perhaps it will help to get better horses into those races. Also, doing this might make some of those horses that would have been virtually guaranteed before....a little less guaranteed. Maybe it means that, whereas in previous years, if they had won the Whitney, they could rest assured they'd be in, now they might have to run in the Woodward or JCGC and put in a good performance because the competition for the open slots is that much tighter. On the negative side, the competition is so thin these days that you have to wonder if it's wise to further dilute the product by taking any horses away from the top races?

seems tho, regardless of what races a horse wins en route to the bc, if his owners feel he/she has what it takes to run, they'll go to the bc.

Spirit one=win and if you pay enough you are in.

Why would the costs be a consideration to shipping and racing EA in the Breeders Cup? I am perplexed why owners feel that the industry should provide free transit and prepaid expenses.. In your horses case you are free to do want you think is in his best interest but the thought that his best interests are better served if transit is free is somewhat strange IMO.

Many of the biggest events provide shipping etc. Dubai, Hong Kong and the Japan Cup all pay the way for participants.

Even if they don't pay shipping and expenses, why not at least comp any entry fees?

OMG the purse is 2 million bucks

True...but the dollar sucks. It trades at 1.50 against the euro vs. .85 against the euro at the beginning of the decade.

good comparsion unfortunately NTRA doesn't have 20% of the worlds oil reserves..If they did Linny I suggest all would be great with racing what do you think?

Ok let my get this right the Aga Khan, Tabor, The FN queen, Sheiks, Widensteins, give a Flying you know what about the dollar as it relates to purse structure or horse flesh.. Or better yet the expenses of shipping to California.. Reality check folks purses mean nothing to anyone except the the industry and the people who work in it. Sure there are some majorinal wealthy people who stand to impact their net worth with a true champion but give me a break that represents what 10% of the potential field..

"Hello Ms. Webber your check for 16k is in the mail for shipping your filly to SA" What the heck is 16k, 200 feet of fence?

I was responding to your post and it seemed like you were saying that 2 million dollars was a big deal. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant when you said "omg the purse is 2 million dollars".

I am of the opinion that purse money IS important. Maybe I am wrong.

The JRA and the Hong Kong JC don't have oil reserves either.

\


The purse is completely irrelevant to all but a handful of owners.. Sure if DrugS and I were to be so fortunate as to win a BC race it would be significant to DrugS.. If I had a Smarty Jones or a 40 million dollar champion it would be significant to me. But winning a 1.2mil purse means what to most owners a good toast at dinner and barrel of good fun which is priceless.. The purse isn't priceless winning is

Linny get a grip there is absolutely no comparsions between JRA/ and HKJC and NTRA. It's not even fair to represent them as equal entities.

I think Nader is making more money (good for him) then the entire staff at NYRA combined..lol...

300, painted

Assuming your theory were true than why are so many of them so reluctant to part with any of that meaningless cash? You are correct in a sense but some of the cheapest people I have ever met are the richest ones.

Exactly

There are cheap wealthy people . The point is the industry shouldn't beg them or pay for them to run there stock. IF I trained a horse that I thought would be successful racing at the BC and the owner was to cheap to pay the expenses I would say simply its on me win or lose. At which point the owner would either say you feel that strongly we should run or don't be ridiculous get the van ready.

thing is tho, the bc is billed as the 'world championship' (which imo is laughable) and wants to be thought of as one of the premiere racing events in the world. so shouldn't they go the same extra mile as hong kong or dubai? owners know what happens elsewhere, so why not the bc? and if they can't do it, they should change their name!
the bc puts on 2 days of racing, which nets them a lot of tv money and all handle for the races. plus factor in sponsorship of the races by john deere, dodge, etc. the bc can afford to pay shipping, especially to those coming in from overseas.

if they (the bc powers that be) want to be a world wide event, they need to treat it like one!

Here's a prime documented example...... Bill Gates... richest guy in the world... goes to Vegas, won't spend more than 1 line on a nickel slot.

The ones I look up to... are the ones that have $$ and want to get into sports... and look at things the fan's way. Win, period.

i can see the BC not paying the shipping fees but "win and you're in" should NOT have a entry fee with it.
the BC should be embarassed for saying to the the owner of Spirit One."congrats, you're in the BC that will be $250k please."

They have to charge the supplemental fee or else you would have no one nominate in the first place and the entire program would collapse. What they should eliminate though is the entry fee (1% of purse) and starting fee (1.5% of purse) for the winners of Win and You're In races.

Would you kindly read my post and show me where I said that the BC should pay shipping cost. What I did say and stand by is the win your in is nothing than hype. It is a promotion for the fans.
As for "Why would the costs be a consideration to shipping and racing EA in the Breeders Cup?". Why wouldn't it be?

but like dd said ,win and you're in--but not really.

i mean, that is one hell of a supplemental fee. even the kentucky derby has late nominations before the big supplement kicks in. .is that available with the bc races?

You didn't but others in the thread suggested that they(NTRA) should. I would imagine the costs are completely insignificant. Your champion is a treasure and clearly one of the best story lines currently in racing surely he has earned the opportunity to continue to expand on his illustrious career. I would suspect that the 20k to get him there and back is certainly is amount that he will earn in the event as well as the implied value to watching him succeed in such a prestious event. Obviously it's your right to run or not run but such wonderful stories are few and far between. Win lose or draw your horse's attedence would be a windfall for all. Not running IMO because of the costs would be a missed opportunity for his fans to enjoy. Not running because it wasn't in the horses best interest is much different then 20k in shipping expense. Hopefully shipping expense is far down on the list of reasons not to run.

I think I know the answer to this, but has Attire been on a synethic track before? I don't think he has but I can't remember......

Reason I say this is because given how synethic tracks play, he should relish them given his running style....

I know I am very cheap so I think you're right and I rest in an elite wealth catagory: el broke'

Win and you're guaranteed a spot in the field. If you didn't nominate in the first place when your horse was a foal (which is what pays for the program) then you still have to supplement. If you didn't require that then no one would ever waste the money on nominating when they could just go by the philosophy that if their horse was good enough to be in the BC then he could win a Win and You're In race. It is silly though that they won't waive the entry and starting fees though if you win a Win and You're In race.

BTW, it would only cost Evening Attire $12,500 to run plus shipping costs so it isn't like that should really be a big deterrent from running for $500,000.