7/13 (FE): Prince of Wales
 

Fort Erie: Prince of Wales S.

1 Deputiformer Jerry Baird Mike DePaulo 4-1
2 Pronger Chad Beckon Mike DePaulo 20-1
3 Took the Time Patrick Husbands Mark Casse 8-1
4 Harlem Rocker Eibar Coa Todd Pletcher 2-1
5 East End Tap Elvis Trujillo Reade Baker 20-1
6 Pewter Richard Dos Ramos James Bond 20-1
7 Not Bourbon Jono Jones Roger Attfield 7-5
8 Sebastian's Song David Clark Alec Fehr 20-1

Strange this seems all too familiar, as of today Harlem Rocker is not even stabled at Fort Erie for tommorow's race. Rather than parachuting in as in the Plate Trial fiasco, wouldn't an acclimation period of a few days be prudent off of what happened at Woodbine? Frank, Todd, whoever is calling the shots doesn't seem to be on the right page when it comes to the Rocker.

Harlem Rocker seems out of place right now. I have no idea why he is in Fort Erie?? Give him some time off before his blockbuster 4 yo season.

Harlem Rocker wins, long shot East End Tap second, Not Bourbon faded to the back of the pack.

the announcer got excited at the top of the stretch and said "the favorites are beaten!", only one problem, Harlem Rocker was never passed and drew away late.

That field was ****. Worse than 5,000 claimers at thistledowns.

Discard Harlem Rocker in any big 3YO race at your own risk. He is obviously a much different animal on dirt and the field he beat today was essentially the same group Not Bourbon beat in the Queen's Plate.

More importantly, Harlem Rocker already beat a really good horse in a fast time in April.

NT

I think Todd has some idea what he is doing. I suspect Frank made him try the synthetics wanting to win the QP.

HES BACK?


Beating East End tap in this race means so very little in and of itself. You must watch the race and form an opinion and also consider the fractions and final time.

I haven't watched the race and have no idea of the fractions.

These were the fractions for the Prince of Wales (1 3/16 Miles)

24.09 47.40 1:11.98 1:37.54 1:56.46

These were the other races at two turns:

Race 3- $7,500 Clm 1 1/16 Miles

24.54 48.38 1:12.65 1:39.15 1:46.20

Race 9- $5,000 Clm 1M 70 Yards

22.80 46.87 1:12.72 1:40.13 1:44.57

NT

Yes the field was not grade 1 level, yes it wasn't a knockout performance today, but I thought for his first route race over dirt and considering Coa admitted that he perhaps moved earlier than he wanted to, it was a workmanlike effort. The margin of victory really wasn't reflective of the ease in which he won. My only problem is he was incredibly hot on the tote board today making him unbettable, perhaps he is getting too much hype this early, which bothers most bettors that like a horse. The criticism about the final time I can understand, however with no horses of this calibre running this day on this card, it is hard to truly gauge how fast or slow they ran, 1:56 and change for 1 3/16ths is nothing to worry about if you ask me, but obviously we will just have to wait and see how he does at the Spa to see if he is a true router or is he a miler. Coa said he is still very green.

He sure knows more than me, I don't think Frank thinks anyone knows more than Frank knows...:)

:rolleyes:

this race was on dirt, not the dreaded AWT-seems more and more that was the reason for his one (thus far) off the board finish/first loss.

as for why he was at fort erie, he just one the second leg of the canadian triple crown. he's a canadian bred, and i think frank ran him up there to A-try to win some of the canadian classics so that B-he can possibly win canadian horse of the year.

He'll need atleast 3 starts in Canada to be considered for a Sovereign award, I am curious what beyer will be assisgned for this race. My guess is in the 95 range.

A few nimrods took pathetic glee in Harlem Rocker failing on polytrack, while dismissing that as an excuse, yet have been shockingly absent from this thread.

They're probably just not up yet.

And he truly showed us how great he is by beating that stellar field.
He is a CHAMPION.:rolleyes:

EDIT: let me reword this. He hammers horses on dirt that hammered him on POLY. And these horses are not very good on dirt. So, why am I excited?

two down, one to go then...

i'm not saying it's his, but i can see the thought process behind him running there. his owner is from there, and no doubt wants to promote canadian racing--he just won their 'preakness'.

He's certainly a lot better horse than you have been suggesting.

If it makes you feel better ( or maybe worse ) I was referring to actual nimrods....and not you.

funny, just a few weeks ago everyone was gushing about the queens plate, with a fantastic finish between not bourbon and ginger brew. the QP winner was in the field for the prince of wales-of course he is only one horse....
i guess not bourbon likes the dirt as much as harlem likes the poly.

:tro:

I'm certainly not suggesting he is the second coming of Holy Bull and perhaps not even Macho Uno, however there is a quality horse here for those who want to take a deeper look. I'm not sure if it's this board or perhaps other boards are simular, but hopefully the hype that may becoming associated to this horse is not this overblown. No one is saying he is great just yet, certainly I never called him great.

which is why i don't understand why people call AWT an 'equalizer'. it just gives rotten dirt horses a chance to beat good dirt horses when they have to run on 'dirt'-so how is it an equalizer??

I guess I am one of those nimrods you speak of. However, it's not accurate to say, at least in my case, that I dismissed it as an excuse. I think that I said to say that it was the ONLY excuse was the wrong thing to do, without considering that it could be the distance or the second-turn. Admittedly, I did think that those other factors played a bigger part than the polytrack did and after seeing him here, it appears that I was wrong.

I'm still not sure, as while he obviously didn't like polytrack, he also didn't run particularly fast here, and he still appears like he may be better suited to a one turn mile. As weak as these 3YOs appear, he will still need to run better to win races like the Jim Dandy, Haskell, or Travers. Unfortunately the timing isn't great for the Jim Dandy, and maybe even the Haskell, as it would be good to see how he would run in one of those as then they could choose between the Travers and King's Bishop.

His best race by far was The Withers where he showed an explosive kick, he may be more suited to a one turn mile if the 2 races are the true. The test will be the Jim Dandy where all the indications seem to be is his next start. You would hope he can beyer in the 100 range if he would want to be considered for the Travers.

You would - but I'm not sure he'll need to this year. . . He'd be much more interesting from a betting standpoint in the King's Bishop where he would probably be at least some kind of price.

I think you may be thinking historically here. We think of races like the Dandy, Haskell, and especially the Travers and we think of the types of horses that win those races. We don't see Harlem Rocker as that type of horse at this point so it makes sense to say he'd need to improve. However, when I look at the current group of 3yo's, once I get past Big Brown, I can't see another horse that stands out in the group that would make me think Harlem Rocker would have to improve to beat them. With this group, any horse that has four legs and a pulse has to be considered and any horse that's won a stakes has to be considered among the favorites and any horse that's been able to win more than one stakes has to be considered the horse to beat in any 3yo race at longer than 8f.

its really not that simple. although the overall quality may be lower, not every horse that won a stake is necessarily ready for the Travers, nor will they necessarily be considered the horse to beat in any race longer than 8F. I think you have to get a little deeper than that. and go on a case by case basis.

Agreed. Right now, at a one-turn mile, there aren't many three-year-olds I'd take over Harlem Rocker. At ten furlongs though, there are a handful.

A handful? Unless I've missed something, tell me which 3yo's have proven themselves better than Harlem Rocker at 10f? Which ones have proven themselves better than him at 9f? Speculation is one thing but I'm talking about that's actually proven more on the track?

Wood winner-Tale of Ekati
SA Derby winner-Colonel John
Arkansas Derby winner-Gayego
Blue Grass winner-Monba
Swaps winner-Tres Borrachos

Do any of those horses strike fear? Not to me they don't. I'm not saying that HR has proven that he's better than them either. But I definitely think he fits with them and wouldn't have to improve to be competitive with them. Again, I think most people have it in their minds what it NORMALLY takes to be a Travers type of horse and not looking at this year. If Harlem Rocker had to beat a Point Given, Birdstone, Flower Alley, Bernardini or Street Sense.....yeah, I'd agree that he's not a Travers horse. But outside of Big Brown, who may not even be in the race, for the life of me, I can't see any 3yo that I would take over him with any confidence at 10f.

I finally actually watched this race and thought HR's performance was more impressive than the 90 fig would indicate. He made a sweeping but much too early move on the turn, looked beaten, and then re-broke in the lane.

I agree in principle, the card at Fort Erie was filled with low level claimers and 5 furlong turf sprint races, so it was hard to have a good gauge just how fast Harlem Rocker ran, given the fact that most of his competition ran primarily on poly so basically the vast majority of the horses were running in uncharted waters when it came to dirt races. There was really no one to compare him with.

On a side note Not Bourbon flipped his palate during the race.

No argument here. . . the verdict's still out until he runs back at the Spa.

The distance or the polytrack debate lives on.

He's probably a 1 turn miler in all honesty. Just how good is anyone's guess.