Notional and OverExtended
 

Both horses transfered From Doug O'Neil to Mark Henning and both wins in very impressive performances. They each are coming off of very dull races.

I was just about to post the exact same thing. Both of those horses had been running terrible for O'Neil. They switch to Hennig's barn and both win impressively. That does not make O'Neil look very good.

Doug O'Neil is one of those big steroid guys. He is one of those "throw the kitchen sink at the horse" type of guys. That doesn't work on all horses. There are some horses that will actually run better when you get the steroids and all the crap out of their systems.

man, those two bums winning...what is hennig giving those horses.

Yeah, who would've thought that Overextended would've been able to win a statebred N1X after running against open company, graded company and running out of condition?

That is true that his win today was in a state bred race. But still, he had been running dead-last in nwx1 in California as of late. The state bred races are certainly much weaker, but you still wouldn't expect that a horse who was running dead-last in an open nwx1, would win a state-bred nwx1.

stake company in california is highly overrated.

They did not win but they won like monsters.

Overextended flew in the last furlong and Notional rallied off the pace on Monmouth's track which does not favour closers that much.

He hadn't run in a stakes race since December. As of late, he had been getting crushed in nwx1 races in California.

With regard to your comment about stakes company in California, over the last 15 years or so I think that California horses have fared much better when they have shipped to NY, than NY horses have done when they ship to California.

good horses rarely ship from New York. There usually are some good horses, like a Zenyatta, but the races at the stake level have zero depth, and look NY has the advantage of shippers from all over the country.

I wouldn't? I believe in the significance of class relief, so I thought he was a perfectly logical contender today, and considering he was the freaking FAVORITE IN THE RACE, I wasn't the only one.

Reddam sent two horses east that should've been out here a while ago and they both won. I don't see how that's some indisputable condemnation of O'Neill.

It's certainly not an indisputable condemnation of O'Neil. But it doesn't make him look very good.

Overextended was 6-1 on the morning-line. He certainly got bet way down going off at 5-2. But we don't know how much of that money was inside money.

I certainly think Overextended improved today. I don't think a repeat of his dead-last finish in his previous race in the open nwx1 would have been good enough to win the race today.

I do admit that Notional is a much better horse on conventional dirt, so that could have been a big reason for his improvement.

Didnt Overextended at 5/2 no less need a miracle fall apart to get up and win? He should be 30/1 in nw2x next time.

yeah, i think today's race will be hard to repeat on a fast track against better. I think the maiden first time starter ran faster in the previous race.

I'm pretty sure if they had NY-bred allowance races in California, Overextended wouldn't have been finishing last in anything under O'Neill.

I agree. The state-bred races are much weaker. When a horse goes from an open nwx1 to a state-bred nwx1, I would expect the horse to improve.

More like the last 50 years

I was trying to be nice. LOL.

Dont you agree though that to be considered great Cali horses have to ship and win and not the other way around, so rarely the best east coast horses are sent west? Take Azeri, some people did not think she was all she could be until she won at Saratoga.

I think you are right. I think there is a big East coast bias. But that doesn't mean that it is justified.

In many cases yes but racing has changed alot in recent years. Really California racing is one circuit and "east coast" racing is many circuits. That is the major difference. Now you have the synthetic track factor to deal with. But it has always been harder for East coast horses to go West than vice versa for whatever reason and that has been the case seemingly forever.

good points

I can't believe it is barely mentioned that neither had been running on real dirt. On my numbers, both were the top dirt horses in the field.

I certainly hope people will continue to ignore the difference.

not for long my friend, soon all we will have blue and green numbers :D

Much easier to ignore that and concentrate on the Hennig's new, mysterious vet, the X factor, the conspiracy, and all of the other controversial justifications. LOL.

Seriously, I think most people picked up on it, but just got drawn to the trainer angle. Hennig is a sharp horseman. He knows what he's doing. OTOH, there are people who will certainly think that the "withdrawal" of "ALL" the drugs was mostly responsible for the improved performances. LOL.

Eric

Overextended got competitive numbers for his BC and Delta Jackpot efforts? Must have been a modest field.

Aside from that though, to some degree, based on his recent form and mismanagement, one had to consider the possibility that Overextended was thoroughly toast after his ridiculous 2yo campaign.

And Notional had a severe injury to overcome last year, which probably kept people off of him (in a graded stakes that is) because of his recent form, too.

Anyways, I wonder if Henning will get Liquidity, too, who has a bowed tendon to return from.

And while we are talking about Reddam horses, what about Mistical Plan's recent 3rd in a Belmont stakes race (Ogden Phipps)? Was that an improvement from her synthetic form figurewise? If not, and she gets transfered to Hennig, it will be interesting to see if he moves her up as well.

While Overextended getting back on track was good to see, let's all remember that it was against NY bred company, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's also worth mentioning that he ran down a horse who has now seriously shortened stride in the final eighth of every race he's ever runand has only one win over a ridiculously biased inner track to show for himself.

NT

I mentioned that in post #11. I said, " I do admit that Notional is a much better horse on conventional dirt, so that could have been a big reason for his improvement."

I would have a hard time believing anything Hennig may have given Notional would rival what O'Neill may have given him in the past. I think if anything the surface and the drop were more of the reasons why Notional ran so big yesterday, still I have to admit he surprised the heck out of me how big he ran yesterday.