Curlin works on turf
 

July 1-went 7f around the dogs on firm turf on the Matt Winn Turf course at CD in 1:31.20. Story is on Bloodhorse. com.

I'm not sure if it was posted, but now Illinois is giving them a hard time about getting licensed here.

Well the one good thing is that they haven't definitively said no, they have just said that they'll have to wait until the application comes in.

I wonder if Curlin is able to run in a pack and then sprint to the finish like they do in Europe. I also wonder if Alborado is able to adjust his style. Or are these of no concern?

he has a style?

:D :rolleyes:

Exciting stuff.

Nice picture of him on bloodhorse, reminds a little of the Secretariat book cover picture.

If it's an issue of "true" European style racing, OK. However, if it's an Albarado issue -- no, no concern at all as far as I am concerned. He knows the horse, he's been to the big dances, he'll do his homework and he'll be ready. We're not talking about a "local" jock who gets to "keep the mount" and is kind of "out of his league" so to speak. He's a professional, national stage, etc. jock.

Eric

I am eagerly awaiting Curlin's first start on turf.

I will bet against the steed.

With both fists.

If they wanted to have any shot whatsoever in the Arc they would secure the services of Andre Fabre and Oliver Pesslier.

Of course, those two would probably prefer to be associated with a horse with at least an outside chance.

I think that he is at a huge disadvantage over there. The tracks are so different and the ground is so soft that a US jock is a possible problem.

Christophe Clement was asked on HRTV last week what he thought of Curlin attempting the Arc, he said if they sent him over early enough to work a few times and was ridden by a European rider he would be interesting, hey it's the same as when the European riders ride laughingly bad in the big dirt races here, when in Rome do as the Romans.

Yeah, I see that. As far as the soft ground, I don't know if that is as much a disadvantage vis a vis the jock as it is the horse. At this point, I don't know the actual plans so I don't know who acclimated the horse would be to the potential track conditions. As far as the tracks -- yes, a definite factor. However, I would think they would do what they could -- short of getting another jock -- to try and overcome this factor. Would they not have Albarado over there early, get him some previous mounts, watch, learn, etc. Sure, nothing like real life experience, but we are not talking about complete amateurs here, right? At the same time, can you really see them not using Robby and changing jocks for this? It might make sense, but it's a big trigger to pull. Easy to say, tough to do.

On the other hand -- as good/great/whatever you want to call it, as Curlin is -- going over there and competing in the toughest race, perhaps in the world, that are come incredible hurdles to overcome. He doesn't have to be able to "handle" the turf, he's got to be "great" on it.

Eric

The course is different from distance to distance which is a real issue for an inexperienced rider over the course. The ground being so soft is something our riders are simply not used to riding over. Knowing where he is in relation to the finish will be the biggest issue i would guess.

don't the jocks there ride differently over there compared to ours due to the undulating course as well? seems i read not too long ago where they compared euro jocks to americans--americans being able to be more still, less athletic, since our courses are all flat, with just the two turns generally to worry about.

OK, so the course is different distance to distance, and if the only answer is to use a jock who is truly experienced over that course -- then I see that being a real issue. Insurmountable? I'm not sure, but very tough. The soft ground, I don't know, if an American jock is just not used to riding over that type of surface, would that be countered by a jock who knows the horse better? A European jock knows the soft turf exceptionally well, but doesn't know the horse as well? I'll go with you on that.

Knowing where he is in relation to the finish -- hey, if that's a big issue, sure I can buy that. He rides a similar distance, but that's not the same, yeah, OK, I got that. Is that too insurmountable? Beats me, LOL.

Eric

I know we're getting way ahead of ourselves, but I thought they said that, if they were going to send him over for the Arc, they were going to run him in the Prix Foy, a course and distance prep for the Arc. As someone who is not an Albarado fan, I would without question use a European rider who is more in tune with the nuances of European racing. If the concern is that the rider needs to get familiar with the horse, then have him ride Curlin in the Foy as well.

I agree..Going to be tough enough for Curlin, but maybe with a "top" jock from over there he might have at least some shot at pulling it off. I would love to see Curlin achieve what no horse thus far has done, but IMO using Albarado would be a mistake. It will be interesting to see what all develops over the next few months.

If you are going to use a European Jock, who on earth would they get? I know very little about The Arc. Does it get a great deal of starters? If so, what jocks would be left to ride Curlin?

winning the Arlington or Man o' war would be a horseracing feat (provided that one or two decent turf horses enter).

Winning one of the above on a soft turf course would be a huge feat.


as a fan it is neat seeing him run on turf. -as a gambler he is a bet against, and I would prefer he run in New York at 11furlongs.
If he wins and runs in the arc he is a bet-against again, but also a very cool thing to see happen.

Your best guess at odds for Curlin in the "Arc".

video of his work
 

http://www.churchilldowns.com/video/...ases-turf-work


too lazy to sign in/out, but the video of his work with commentary may be available to all

Good news for Belmont, bad for AP?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/Now/News/N...ews/45965.aspx

Certainly looks like it. This may also change Curlin's course for the rest of the year.

I thought I saw somewhere that on a European bookmaker's "future book" for the Arc, Curlin is listed at 14-1.

It would be great if he showed up at Belmont.

Then he can run in the Woodward at Saratoga.

Is that your way of saying you think the France plans are a bunch of BS or that you think he'd get beat in the Man o War?

I think it is his way of saying that he doesn't think the horse is much on the turf

While I have no real opinion on it, the horse is bred out the ass for the lawn, so he could even be better then he is on the dirt, which would be real freaky :)

I wonder if this latest development would make them consider ditching -- or at least delaying -- the turf plans and going in the Whitney instead of the Man O' War. You'd have to imagine the former would be the easier race for him, but then again, as weak as the turf division is, he may be able to be win the Man O' War..

I think this is what is referred to as " speaking out of your ass. "

I would answer yes and yes.

How isn't he bred for the turf, his sire has thrown multiple turf stars and has Deputy Minister on his bottom. It isn't Kingmambo over a Theatrical mare but there is green in his pedigree

From a breeding perspective, I see no reason why he wouldn't take to the lawn.

First of all, you said " he is bred out the ass for turf " which is the overstatement of the year and the kind of crap the VI spews here. Now you seem to be switching gears. I never said he had no turf breeding, and there is plenty of sire influence, but maybe you should also take a good look at his dam side production. I am not saying this is even the most important thing, however you are basically making definitive assertions with, at best, a minor amount of information.

On the final remark, it would also be fair to say the opposite. I am not saying that will be the case but more I am pointing out the uselessness of the comment.

Here's the bottom line, any smart horseplayer looks to bet against horses like Curlin, a good dirt horse that is overbet when trying the turf for the first time. However, apparently with some's desperate zest to annoint Curlin the greatest horse since Hindoo, all common sense is flying out the window.

VI?

I never annointed him a thing, I said I didn't have an opinion on it just that he is bred for the lawn, I'll take back the statement of him being 'bred out the ass', the fingers were just flowing when typing.

I think that generation gaps cause alot of this, I haven't seen the horses that you have seen since you have been around so long, so maybe my perspective isn't as deep as yours.

If you don't know who the VI is then it might be you....or maybe it should be.

Any smart horseplayer wouldn't play the race at all. It isn't like there are a bunch of Europeans coming in for the Arlington race or Man O War. He is likely to face nothing special. The nominations are pretty weak.

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...0080712-477451

And you are qualified to make this blanket statement.....because?

I am also confused on why you would not want to play a race where you can take a stand against a 1-5 horse