Colonel John
 

Does anyone want to talk about him ?
I just read he's going to saratoga for the summer, i looked at his pp's very talented horse... i think he can make some big noise in the division this summer, and he has handled all synthetic tracks.... that is a obvious plus, with the breeders cup in cali this year and next.
pedigree says he will get better with age, i really do see a big second half of the seasson for him

There was a great amount of discussion about him prior to the Derby and I know DrugS made it clear on this site that Tiznow's progeny are doing extraordinarily well on synthetic surfaces. Thus, Colonel John's ability to win a race like the Travers is completely unknown until he tries conventional dirt again.

I can tell you this much, if he comes into the Travers off of a good race in the Swaps but with no dirt race since the Derby, I'll bet against him with both fists.

NT

swaps ? i read today hes already at saratoga.

at this point, if your looking at the big picture he has to be a very legit horse, just because of his success on synthetics and the fact that the breeders cup is run over it.
i still think his run in the santa anita derby was very explosive.

Huh? As of last week he was still at Hollywood Park and they were talking Swaps...

my local paper says that he is going to saratoga.... hold on im going to check it

ok i read it wrong, i guess he could be going swaps then to saratoga... here is the paragraph...

One-time top Derby candidate Pyro, who recently won the Northern Dancer at Churchill Downs for trainer Steve Asmussen, is another candidate. Trainers Todd Pletcher of Ready’s Echo and Behindatthebar, Dallas Stewart of Macho Again and Eoin Harty of Colonel John will also be on the grounds this summer, and none of their horses have been ruled out.

according to the bloodhorse magazine i got in the mail yesterday, pyro is being pointed to the haskell. of course that could change, but i would think after the belmont that other trainers won't be quite so antsy about facing big brown. he showed he was a mere mortal that day.

at this point, i would say, no way pyro runs in the haskell, i read dwyer... then maybe jim dandy-travers

"pyro was coming off two extremely disappointing efforts for a top-class horse," said Asmussen, who will now point the colt toward the $200,000 Dwyer Stakes at Belmont Park as a prep for the $1 million Haskell Invitational...

that's from the bloodhorse magazine dated june 21.

i see that mrs.
but i read where steve said the dwyer might come up to fast, and he would then point to the jim dandy-travers....
i guess it does not matter... most ppl use the haskall as a prep for the travers, im sure we will see both of them in travers.

I was disappointed Colonel John didn't contest either of the remain TC races. He showed in his CD workout, which may have been a bit too fast in retrospect (sub-58 for 5f) that he could handle the dirt. In the Derby, as is typical of Corey Nakatani in that race (see Halory Hunter, AP Valentine, Alyrob, etc), he was placed way too far back in the field to make an impact. Whereas he was typically no more than 5 or 6 off the pace (and even sometimes right on top of it) in his previous starts, having him nearly 20 lengths arrears early certainly didn't put him in position to win, particularly when he's displayed more of a "grinder"-type finish in his off-the-pace efforts. Regardless, he did make a big middle move to at least reach the second flight of horse before failing to sustain his bid, none which suggests that the surface was much of a problem.

I suppose he skipped the last two classics to prepare for this second half. Unfortunately, now, he faces what may be a much tougher Swaps then previously anticipated. Two Step Salsa (who at this stage is still on the fence) has been monstrous on the lead in his last pair going 7f and 8.5f. The Swaps figures to come up light in field size and pace, putting this colt in prime position to derail Colonel John's summer, right off the bat.

I think you're being just a lil bit ridiculous with the Big Brown trash talking.

grinder ? i saw a explosive turn of foot in the santa anita derby

also the swaps is just a comeback race, a prep for bigger things. if he runs a good second to a very sharp horse like TSS, im sure the connections will be happy, and ready to move forward to saratoga.

Holy cow.

Just watched those replays. Horse runs very hard early and still has gas in the tank.

Not that they are particularly top class monsters, but when good horses like Salute The Sarge and Dixie Chatter come at you at the 3/8s pole with threatening runs and you rip their heads off down the lane, you've got to be considered one very promising race horse.

Let's see what how he finishes when he actually has a worthy pace rival early, however.

i might be wrong, but wasen't he on easy leads all alone in his last 2 ?
pace is the key to every race....

He was under heavy pressure to get going from behind at the 1/4 pole and a lot of his dramatic rush to the wire was probably aided by sprinter Bob Black Jack yielding late. His Hollywood Futurity run suggests the same.

Yeah, I mentioned that.

I also mentioned that its likely at this point that he will also get an easy lead in the Swaps.

I would like to see Colonel John take another crack at a dirt track. If it doesn't work out leave in Cali. Give him two shots at the BC on a track he likes, and pick up some nice purses along the way.

he will def. run on dirt this summer.

Really?

Colonel John will be a nonfactor in the Travers if he goes. . .

The stop has been applied

PM ME FOR some colonel john travers action :)

The horse didn't run disastrously at the Derby by any stretch; I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Colonel John could run on dirt.

He is on easy leads because he runs 23 and 46 for a mile and an eighth on the stuff, thats part of it. The horse does not get out of the gate well but has phenomenal early speed. He has been challenged at pace on a grass turf sprint and came in 2nd. Fought very hard at the end.
The most suprising part for me is he has run hard fractions, had challengers come up to his rear and then he pulls away. The style is what interests me.

We will see. Looks like a tough animal. Will have to wait until he gets away from Cali tracks.

.. and on dirt and on turf (Da' Tara and Tizdejavu). Tiznow, a dirt horse with natural stamina, sires horses who run well on all surfaces. Polytrack, one among the many types of AW (all-weather) surfaces, generally demands more stamina and/or fitness than average, and the Tiznows have the stamina part.

Perhaps it's bold of me to challenge the opinion of someone who calls themself "Pedigree" Ann but Tizdejavu seems to be the exception to the rule when it comes to Tiznow's progeny trying the turf. He has had numerous stakes winners and stakes-placed runners, however, they were primarily on dirt/synthetics.

Tough Tiz's Sis, Bear Now, Well Armed, and Colonel John all come to mind as Tiznow's biggest names (in addition to Da'Tara) and they are all stakes winners- on synthetics.

NT

Folklore pops out. 2 year old champion filly. She ran on dirt and broke her knee as a 3 yr old forcing her retirement. No Tiznow turf runners come right to mind.

if you don't behave i'll start digging up denis of cork stories.

tiznow is a all around great sire... i dont see why it matters, he can produce on any surface.

It's arbitrary, baseless remarks like this that earn you a great deal of flak on this site...take it from someone who has not chastised you at all.

NT

This horse ran VERY WELL in the Derby given the setup. What are people looking at?

its not baseless he is a young sire, and has accomplished a lot already, champion, major 3 yr old stakes winners, 2 yr old stakes winners...

Right but the original issue was not whether Tiznow is a good sire, that was never denied. The issue was that someone came on here and used one horse as an example as far as how Tiznow is a good turf sire. One horse does not a sire make.

NT

why does he need a good turf horse to be a great sire, maybe i dont get it...
same with giants causeway and dirt, he produces on synthetics and turf, and has had decent dirt runners, so what is he ?

i did start this thread, only because i read that colonel john was coming to saratoga soon.... i think he can be a major player in the division and even in the classic because of the surface its being run on, COLONEL JOHN has raced very well over 3 different types of synthetics. a near miss in his first career start, cruise control twice at hollywood, santa anita derby... he has like all synthetics... so when you think breeders cup, i know i have to give him a shot

Hmmmmmmmmmm......Let's see.