Dedumbeaux's Ride
 

On a 1-10 how bad was Dedumbeaux's ride and strategy the first 220 yards of the race. 10 is the worst Dedumbeaux ride possible, use the Keeneland stand up at the 16th pole as the gold standard

Im putting the ride at 7 Dedumbeaux's

I wish Belmont had Trackus. Seemed like from one angle Coa was herding Kent wide big time. Have to watch the head-on but it seemed like he covered way more ground than most have mentioned.

do you think it really mattered?

I wasn't sure what was going on in the first quarter, but he wasn't winning no matter what KD did or didn't do.

Ironically, BB looked more rank coming out of the gate on the head on than the maiden did

The ABC angle from above had him 7 wide on the backstretch imo.
Quite amazing. Coa is a very determined fella. Very. He had the favorite
smack in the middle of his radar. I did mention it but it did not really
matter. He was cooked.

Coa is ridiculously dirty. I think Drugs or someone actually predicted that he would pull something like he did. Not sure that it's what did Big Brown in, but it's a more viable explanation than "he was missing his winstrol fix."

Do I think it mattered? He lost the race 220 yards in by not putting the best and fastest horse on the lead. Allowing the horse to get pinned down, steadied, and ultimately buried. It was a horrible ride, yes I think it mattered. I think it cost the horse any chance he had of winning. Pathetic ride and he took no fault for the horses lack of run late.

He was rank because he let that crow cross over on him. He ran up heels, he steadied 3 times before they were 300 yards in. Looked like a bad run at Los Al

It didn't matter but he almost got Big Brown's nose lodged in Da' Tara's ass.

and I didn't hear anyone ask him either

but to your first point...why was he a genius for rating him in the Derby and Preakness then?

He may not have won today but the ride on that horse from the 1 hole was a high ranking Dedumbeaux butcher job

Ive never said hes a genius, I think hes a dumb rider. He had clean trips in the Preakness and Derby. He could have had a clean trip today if KD would have let him roll early

Bob when he talked about the horse on ESPN he never said well we had it rough early, I got in tight early, I had to steady. He said I gave the horse a nice clean trip and just didnt have any horse. If thats a nice clean trip Id hate to see what he thinks a bad trip is.

I'm not arguing that point, but what do you think he wanted/was supposed to do? Was the plan to go out with Da Tara? I don't think sending BB on the engine in the Belmont was the plan

Yeah, why not go with Da Tara. If they think the horse is that good he should surely have been able to eyeball De Tara early and at least had a clean run

I'll stop now as defending Desormeaux can only go so far...My feeling was if he didn't have the horse (maybe you disagree), I'm not going to blame the ride for the result

you are 100% correct, he should have went to the lead and made someone beat him. not take back, and chance other jockeys teaming up on him, like coa did.

Bob

I do not agree or disagree that the trip would have mattered. He may have been flat today, we will never know. What I do know is that a horse thats never had any traffic trouble steadied like that early and starts tossing their head around youre going to be in real trouble when the running begins. Im not saying he would have won, but Dedumbeaux didnt give him any chance to run his race.

Im upping the ride to 8 Dedumbeaux's

I've searched you tube for a "red board on jockey ride" that I could post but came up empty

[quote=The Bid]Bob

I do not agree or disagree that the trip would have mattered. He may have been flat today, we will never know. What I do know is that a horse thats never had any traffic trouble steadied like that early and starts tossing their head around youre going to be in real trouble when the running begins. Im not saying he would have won, but Dedumbeaux didnt give him any chance to run his race.

Im upping the ride to 8 Dedumbeaux's[/QUOTE]

lol

ok...we'll move on

i disagree. that horse looked awful form the opening of the gate. what race were you watching, he stopped. he did not exactly lose by a length or two. it was not the same horse. i could tell he was in trouble on the first turn. going into the second turn i knew he was done. the thing i did not like about kent is he wouldn't admit that horse was sore. believe me i've seen enough races, the horse was trying to pull right from the start and was not even gliding smoothly like he did in the other races. God could of rode him he was not winning like that . he could of been scratched but that would of been a disaster, the pressure was on.

Um, what was the jockey supposed to do? Trample half the field into the ground in order to swing out within the first five seconds? Even though he probably got explicit instructions not to go to the lead until late? He was obviously looking to get BB into a comfortable spot as soon as he could, but he was forced to steady because it was impossible to go forward or sideways at that moment. He got the horse into a golden position after the first twenty seconds, and Big Brown just couldn't pull it off. Easing him up was absolutely the right thing to do; you could already tell halfway around the turn that the horse was struggling.

Nothing that Kent D. did made Big Brown flop so spectacularly. Coa did look like he was herding him wide, but considering he went all the way on the outside in both the Derby and Preakness, you wouldn't think it would be too huge of an issue...

Big Brown couldn't have won if Jerry Bailey had jumped from ESPN to saddle today. Horse looked horrible. From experience here in Deep South, BB appeared to react to record high heat in New York this afternoon. He may have other problems that have not been fully uncovered as well. You can hang jockey if you wish. KD did his best to keep BB whole as end of race when all Triple Crown hopes and dreams had expired.

Coa did his part, thats for sure. He kept Big Brown pinned behing D'Tara early, then pushed him out on the backstretch. With that said, you give Big Brown a dream trip from the outside and he still would have lost yesterday.

Kent stopped on him I think just to not have the indignity of getting passed by the maiden while in a drive.

Kent mentioned that the horse "slipped" coming out of the gate. Then he was clearly uncomfortable being on the rail. Kent put him on the outside where he likes it (Hell they opted for the 20 in the derby over the rail) and then it seemed that Coa was intent on putting Big Brown in to the Parking Lot. He did look very wide on the backstretch (that stupid abc/espn view finally paid off). This is a horse that had always seemed to have perfect trips, this was the first time that he really had to deal with a little trouble. I do think it did affect him, but bottom line is that he just didn't have the horse. So even if Kent got him to the lead or kept him clear, I do not think it would have mattered. The horse had nothing when Kent asked him.

Kent stopped on him because that is what Kent does. He should have done what every over jockey would have done. He should have just wrapped him up and galloped home. But this was all about him and he does what he usually does. When he doesn't think he can win he gives up on the horse. If you don't believe me, look at his non-gallop out on Golden Doc A in Indian Blessings race. Horse finished last and he didn't even get a 16th past the finish and he yanked him up. Golden's assistant who was there was pissed.

But as much as I dislike KD as a jockey, Dutrow bears responsibility. You don't miss 4 days of training during this TP cycle, go into a 1 1/2 mile race and expect to not have a problem. Rumor on the back stretch was there was alot of blood under the patch of the quarter crack. Someone said blood was gushing out of it.

But I have never seen so much anomosity for a trainer and jockey as there is for those two. Dutrow brings it on and Kenny D. does as well with his rides. I have no fault with the first 220 yards. I think he was an ass the last part of the race with the world watching. It looked like another Barbaro breakdown.

To me, BB looked very much like War Pass did in the Tampa Bay Race.
I thought Kent had a decent ride on him. He got the horse to the outside and there was nothing there. Horses are vulnerable and they do get beat.
The Triple Crown will have to wait another year. It wasn't the best crop of three year olds, but it was a fun and interesting year. Hopefully we will see BB run again.

Really?
I guess I'm glad some people enjoyed it.
I found it to be one of the least "fun" and/or "interesting" TC years in recent decades.

If you didn't find it at least a little fun and or interesting then why are you involved in this sport? The prep races weren't at the very least interesting?
The five weeks of the three triple crown races weren't interesting? For something that wasn't interesting it sure generated a lot of threads on this forum. What does it have to be like in order for it to make it more interesting to you?

desormeaux admitted that the horse wanted to keep going, that there was nothing wrong with him. can he get in trouble for not riding to the wire? i remember a jock a few years ago got a lengthy suspension because he didn't try all the way to the finish.

as for the horse yesterday-i think it was a combination of factors that got big brown beat. the foot, the heat possibly, the rail, rank early and being taken back-i think kent took him out of his game there, expecting da tara to fold like a cheap tent.
everyone had said that with his speed early, no front runner could stay with him-and we know what happened in the fla derby, no one could catch hiim late...it's like kent forced brown to run with the horses, and that's exactly what big brown wanted to do the rest of the race.

It is always interesting (how can it not be). To have a horse going for the TC and for there to be so much negativity around him is a story all by itself. The slimy connections and the daily sleaze that came out. Dutrow enough said tere. The whole 3 weeks of Casino Drive/Quarter crack press. From War Pass, to Pyro and Colonel John not running a lick in the Derby. To the Eight Bells tradgedy (which personally I think took alot of the fun out of the races). Synthetic to first time dirt and so on, definatley interesting. As far as fun, I am not sure. Because deep down I am not sure if I am happy or sad that he lost. I know that I want to se a triple crown winner in a bad way. But for some reason deep down I didn't want it to be this horse. I just can't explain it, but I understand where you are coming from when you say no fun.

Kent should have gunned straight for the lead and if he quit, he quit. The horse didn't have it and looked poorly in result. The non-everyday races fans will raise their eyebrows on what they saw. What happen in Derby with Eight Belles was tragic, but what happen with Big Brown....will have people wondering if this sport is on the "up and up".

I agree with you. The lack of quality horses (which hopefully will change), the trend to limit the starts of these horses to an almost laughable level ( which probably won't change) and the infusion of artifical surfaces in the major prep races (which definately won't change) left me as uninspired this year as any year in memory. That's what you get when this level of the game exists for no other reason than an adjunct and showcase for the breeding industry; unfortunately don't know how or when that's ever going to change...:(

with me, when i thought about big brown, i remembered the last four tc winners, and those who came so close to it..and then i thought, this horse should get what spectacular bid could not, what sunday silence could not, silver charm, etc?
big cy, secretariat, slew and affirmed were all incredibly special horses, they proved it both before and after the tc-it wasn't just the tc win that made them special. i think it would have been the only thing to make BB special had he won it.
citation won the tc in the midst of a winning streak that still stands today. he beat the reigning hoy very early in his 3 yo season-what horse today comes close to that? none. he ran as an older horse, leaving some memorable performances when carrying weight the likes of which will never be seen again.
secretariat was in the running for HOY as a two year old, but ended up not getting it, as many felt a 2 yo who hadn't faced open competition shouldn't be awarded. winning the tc for him didn't make him that special horse, but the way he did it. three records (get with the program mjc!!) in the three races, with a new record set for margin of victory in the belmont.
slew, first to get thru undefeated, and the only tc winner to face off vs another tc winner-and he won vs affirmed.
and then affirmed, who had alydar to make him look that much better in victory, and then faces off vs one of the best horses the world has ever seen, handing bid his last loss.

so yeah, brownie left me less than awed. yeah, the owners are cheesy, the trainer is who he is....but the horse, and probably the best this year, was not one i, and many others apparently, thought was worthy. and he wasn't.

Kent did the right thing. The horse had absolutley nothing. He wasn't hitting the board and do you think the connections really care about 5th place money. The fallout would have been epic if Kent rode that horse hard to the wire with a known foot problem and no chance to win. Some of the public were looking to hang Saez for riding a horse to a 2nd place finish in the derby when that tradgedy happened. Could you imagine what the scenario would have been yesterday if somehing happened. The majority of the people on this board are smart and saw that this horse had nothing going into the turn. We have all seen 1/5 shots run of the board, that's why they run the races. As far as the public goes, and the up and up of the sport the question should really be , How much of that steroid injection that BB didn't get influeneced his performance yesterday?

What?
Did I say anywhere that I didn't find it at all interesting? Of course not.
I said that I thought this year's TC was "one of the least...interesting TCs in recent decades." I stand by that. Look at last year for example. It was a lot more interesting than watching the mules this year run around the track.
If you somehow found this more interesting than many of the other years, hey, that's cool with me. Personally I enjoy watching stakes races with at least a few decent horses entered. We didn't have that this year.
Did it manage to generate a lot of threads on a Horse Racing message board? Well I should certainly hope so. But I might suggest to you that I'm not sure that is the best way to judge something like this. Especially since 90% of the TC threads were useless garbage started by posters who only pay attention to the sport for 5 weeks a year. Now, there certainly isn't anything wrong with fans like that, but don't tell me that just because they're starting a bunch of threads, that means this year was more interesting than year's past.

I guess I just misunderstood what you meant. I enjoyed it. I don't use any particular year as the Gold Standard. The crop was down, but, IMO there were some interesting stories along the way.

Im sorry but this is about the dumbest thing i have read on this or any other internet board. The horse is obviously empty and beaten before the final turn in a race with slow fractions and you want to blame the jockey?

never ceases to amaze me.

Lots of 1-5 shots lose everyday in racing. The difference is, most 1-5 shots lose without being eased down the entirety of the stretch. Most 1-5 shots give an honest effort; I'm not so sure that is what we saw yesterday.

In what Bizarro Universe was Secretariat not Horse of the Year as a 2-year-old?

I'm shocked at all this Sunday morning quarter backing regarding Big Brown. I guess the blame has to fall somewhere.

They broke from the gate, and Kent did the same thing he's done every race and let Big Brown find his stride. Now, Garcia sends and ducks with Da' Tara, while Coa moves in with Tale of Ekati. When Kent wanted to move outside with Big Brown, Coa said, "No way jose" and kept him inside.

Big Brown has ALWAYS raced outside of horses. Dirt has never been kicked in his face. Kent needed to get him outside.

But instead, let's say he stays inside. At what point in any point of this horse race, did you think any one of those jockey's would have let him out down the backside? None.

It wasn't Big Brown's day to win. Plain and simple. Blaming the jockey is always so convenient.

If Big Brown was truly deserving of a Triple Crown, he would have overcome the few strides of adversity and won the race regardless.

My problem is way less with the part of the race that mattered, I just didn't appreciate the easing of a perfectly sound horse once it was apparent he wouldn't win.

I feel sorry for the horse. He really did want to go on.
But he was just spinning his wheels, he had nothing
for whatever reason. I still like the horse. He is game.
Look like he had every intention of continuing.

I think the foot probably concerned Kent D. more than
anything. Driving a dead horse forward... I dont fault
him for stopping Brown. Consequences if the hoof went
bad... deep doo doo.

The first part of the race was really tough. DaTara shot
out, Brown ran up his butt, then Coa had a good enough
start to pin him for a short time.
He went outside of Coa and Coa took him way out.

Coa did nothing illegal but that guy is ruthless.

Oops I see Mr. Travis has posted somewhat the same
thing. My apologies.

if nothing was wrong with Big Brown, why not just wrap him up and gallop to the wire? it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.