Cork him
 

So Warren is now forcing Carroll to replace Borel with Albarado on Denis of Cork for the Belmont? Can this guy stop his meddling? Talk about a mismanaged horse. From the boneheaded decision to skip the Rebel and Arkansas Derby to run at the speed favoring strip at Hawthorne in a paceless race which almost cost them a spot in the Derby to the baffling Derby draw decision to choose post 16 instead of post 2 when Borel was just going to the rail anyways and now they are going to replace the rider who probably gave the best ride of anyone in the Derby.

Agreed.

I dont like Robby Albarado, but its a good decision by the owner. Looking at DC's record in big races if I were the owner I may be thinking about changing a little more than the rider.

Borel makes his fair share of mistakes but I think his style of riding suits certain horses and worked very well with Denis. I don't get replacing him after an almost perfect ride. And didn't Albarado manage to get the HOY beat in this race last year by a filly?

This is such a huge mistake and it's going to cost this horse the race!!


Rabble rabble!

Switching one mediocre jockey for another. . . big deal. . .

If Prado n' Albarado had switched horses for that sprint stakes, then Lantana whatever would have drawn away by four lengths. I can't believe people think he is anything more than an average Cajun jock. On the other hand, Borel gave this horse a great ride in the Derby. What other horse was moving that well from behind? They were being very cordial up front. How the hell was he supposed to win that race when he didn't get any good set-up? If I could get Prado for the race, then I would have done it. I'm not saying CORK can't win. Whoever likes the surface (and can get 12f) is going to win that race. You can't fake this race. If you dislike either of those 2 things, you're going to get passed late.

Yes, Borel did a wonderful job in the Derby. You have to not only consider the tactics in the race, but the workout he put into the horse as part of that package. DoC maybe isn't best at 10f, but that running style with Borel allowed them to get 3rd or 4th.
It matters much less in the Belmont. I don't see a huge advantage either way between Robby and Calvin in the Belmont, although the switch looks abrupt from my perspective.

Warren can always send Denis to Dutrow after the Belmont; it'd be just like how he transferred Saint Liam from a KY trainer to Dutrow. After all, after the Belmont, Dutrow will probably be looking for a "second half" 3YO.

The biggest - and possibly only mistake that has been made with DoC from a management standpoint was not running him in the Preakness.

Skipping the Rebel for a choice to run later in either the ILL Derby (a 500K race where everyone but DOC was elidgible for an n2x) or Wood allowed DoC to come into the TC series fresh and made him the most viable candidate to run in all three races.

He would have almost certainly finished 2nd in the Preakness - possibly even won the race ... after all - the pace was fast enough and the figure was just a 100. It would have been a great setup for him. Coming back in 3 weeks for the Belmont wouldn't have been a problem either.

DoC still has a shot in the Belmont. He is going to need some 3 way sparring between BB, CD, and Tale of Ekati - the same way Smarty Jones got it from Rock Hard Ten and Eddington - and he's going to have to play the Birdstone role of making the last run and mopping up the survior of the real battle.

This is kinda funny
:D

Possibly won ? Come on. Beyer speed figures won't do BB justice because he is dominating other horses by so much that he is wrapped up long before the race is complete. Beyers are based upon a horse going all out the entire way...

I have news for you - the two highest Beyers this year Commentator (119) and Monterry Jazz (118) were both earned by horses who won under FAR, FAR MORE restraint than Big Brown ever was in the Preakness.

People still believe that horses could run "much faster" if they were "all out" instead of taken in hand late?

It's mind numbing stupidity really. Watch enough races and find out for yourself. It's the mentality of people who don't bet.

Officer won every single race in his career while restrained throughout - not cut loose mid-way on the turn like Big Brown was.

When he got a test finally in the BC Juvie he was bet to an absurd 1/2 favortisim because "he could have run so much faster" - he was ridden hard in the Juvie and was off the board. One example, but there are hundreds of others.

Another reason why beyers are not a good judge of class.

Huh?

BB's mental and physical attributes out weigh any number a human puts on him. KD had this horse in a full Nelson most of the way, and BB acted just fine, then he put the peddle down just enough to get clear, and take his foot off the gas, and save some fuel for next time.

Who cares what Beyer he got, he was flawless.

I guess when you don't bounce off your top, it's called a reversal. We have names for everything in this sport.

:D

I'm not gonna argue one way or another how much faster Big Brown could've run in the Preakness, but there's no way Denis of Cork would've beaten him.

DoC would have got a setup - and had he managed to slice his way through the pack - while unlikely, who's to say he couldn't run a mediocre number like a 102 or 103?

All the early race riding while up on a solid pace had a lot more to do with BB not running a big number than the fact that he was taken in hand through the final furlong.

It gets a little annoying when people act like that means the horse could have run several lengths faster.

I've never believed riding with restraint makes it any easier on the horse either.

Here is a clip of Milkom winning the Grade 1 Man O' War at 8/1 while under a full nelson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04BdGqmOB6w

Not only did Stevens never move on him - but he actually fought with him and had him under strong restraint for most of the race. Millkom came out of the race with a career ending injury.

Brown couldn't have run very much faster once he made his move. Maybe a fraction of a second. Maybe.
That is the misconception concerning wrapped up horses and final times.

Where he could have bettred his time was during the begining and middle of the race.
If there are blazing fractions set, and another threatening opponent the final time can be faster.

The other option would be to leave the slow horses behind on the backstretch and go out and race the clock on his own.

Horses don't often run away from the group as in Secretariat's Belmont. Today Secretariat would have been wrapped up on the backstretch and raced with the group of horses. He wouldn't have run his amazing final time.

A beyer from the preakness doesn't measure the limits of Big Brown's ability unless you believe that he couldn't have gone any faster.

Drugs,
You think KD only had a firm hand on him the last furlong??

What about whem Prado tried to close the door on him, and he took back, and went to the 4-5 path to avoid trouble.

:confused:

:eek: it has really been hard for me to make a post in this thread because I have been laughing to Hard.

If Dennis of Cork ran in the race does that mean it wouldn't have happened?

Thats my point - I'm not saying DoC is anywhere near as good as BB - I'm saying that if he ran in the Preakness he'd atleast have run 2nd - and would have needed about a 102 or 103 Beyer to win.

Laughing at what?

People who think riding a horse out through the stretch makes him run open lengths faster?

I find it more annoying than funny...but whatever floats your boat.

Fair enough, I like DOC.

What beyer did they give out last year for the Preakness?

I don't remember. I know it was a pretty fast final time.

The track was pretty fast... Then you had a fast pace to begin with... Then Pino takes the Derby place horse Hard Spun and gives him a "Kieren Fallon"...
And then you had two BEARS to run it down and duel to the wire.

No wonder it was a fast time.

This years preakness featured a dissapearing act from the cheap pace setter TreBorachos, and a superstar trying not to inherit the lead too early at about a 1:36 clip with nothing to fear but a mishap.

Maybe it is the "Denis of Cork could have beaten Big Brown" statement (Leader in the clubhouse of absurd 2008 statments) that makes him laugh.

Would they have beaten Brown by 6.5 or 7 lengths?

Tres Borrachos might have performed a disappearing act, but it certainly wasn't as a cheap pace setter.

yea he was partying in the infield

My chart has him in 11th, then 12th, then rallies past Gayego and Riley Tucker for 10th.

Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about.

Well you may be right but I sure know a hell of a lot more than to say "Denis of Cork would have beaten BB" That one scores a 119 Beyer for absurd statements.. Have a nice day and bet big against BB on Belmont day. You know those 100-102 Beyers don't lie.

Tony Reinstedler and his assistant Leslie did a great job with Saint Liam. The horse was going to win as a 4yr old if he stayed with Reinstedler or left for Dutrow. Top horses win wherever they go.

Warren is the one who screwed up with Denis of Cork, not David Carroll. But considering he took Saint Liam away from Reinstedler it wouldn't surprise me if they gave Denis of Cork to Dutrow.

Dutrow relies on steroids much more than Carroll or Reinstedler and I get the feeling that is what allows Dutrow horses to make a huge jump up.

What is funny is how Dutrow says he doesn't know if steroids work but he keeps giving them the 15th of every month.

Doesn't matter. Steroids will be gone within the year.

Of course they do. That's why they're top horses, right?

First of all - I never said what you quoted - but why not take the scummy move and lie? Nice move.

If you want to see lunacy ... just read the following quote again ..

and keep in mind the year's two highest figs came with full nelson rides.

It's pretty amusing that even MisterB saw the point I was making about trips - while you couldn't.

You probably think the best horse wins every race - and you obviously don't understand trips at all.

Yes and no. It is hard to argue with the success Dutrow has had win Kip Deville and a horse like Saint Liam.

My skepticism of Dutrow though was always how much he moved up average horses say in the 9th on a typical Wednesday at Belmont. There were quite a few that came from decent barns that he moved up considerably. I just don't understand what a trainer can do to get an average horse to run much faster. I am assuming the steroids he uses must have something to do with it. There really just are not that many things that are different from trainer to trainer.

You are just posting at such a high level that most of us cannot appreciate. Thank you for your patience.