Beyer still not sold on Big Brown
 

I am in 100% agreement with him. A lot of hype for an unproven horse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

"Brown's ridiculously easy victory didn't tell us whether he is a great horse -- or just the dominant member of a weak thoroughbred crop."

"In his five-race career, Big Brown still has not beaten a horse of real quality, nor has he been fast enough to prove he is a horse for the ages."

"Perhaps Big Brown finally will get a challenge when he faces the intriguing Casino Drive three weeks hence."

And then when Casino Drive loses, we'll hear that he just wasn't a good horse either. :rolleyes:

"lot of hype for an unproven horse"

does that apply better to Big Brown or Casino Drive?

answer:Casino Drive in a landslide.

If Big Brown crushes Casino Drive, and I believe he will, we will only be able to rate how good he is if he faces Curlin. He has clearly demonstrated his superiorty over this weak 3yo bunch. The older horses, other than Curlin,are also an inferior group.

Casino Drive is a big-time horse. If Big Brown beats him I will be impressed. My word is worth nothing though. Take it from Kent who rode him.

"He's a monster lying in wait," said Desormeaux, who rode the half-brother of the past two Belmont winners.

Wow, AB really stuck his neck out on this one.

Yeah, I would say so.

That, the owners are jerks, have no class, are not sportsmen, and so on. Dutrow is a jerk as well, but also cheater, a drug addict -- perhaps reformed, and so on. There will always be plenty of reasons -- against the horse and to bash connections. Bashing can turn to hate pretty easy. Anyway, it is what it is.

Eric

Agree, but I could never hate a horse because of his connections. Big Brown didn't choose any of this. I bet against him in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby, but won't be doing so in the future ... I think he's just a really good horse and he towers above the others in this crop. It would be a good thing for racing if he won the triple crown ... Lord knows we need that.

It won't happen. If Big Brown goes through to the end of the season -- Curlin will not defend his BC Classic title. It's possible, as opposed to probable. However, if so, Jackson and Assmusen will become racing fan enemy # 1 (although Assmusen perhaps at times already is). They will be criticized for not being sportsmen, and so on, similar to what we saw with Street Sense's connections.

Regardless, Big Brown will not ever be "accepted" -- yet I don't know if that's here in a forum like this, mainstream racing fans, the industry at large, etc.

Eric

Curlin will 100% be there in the BCC. He would handle the current Big Brown rather easily. The one thing about Curlin is that he has run from nobody. If Big Brown wants him in the fall he will get him. It is Big Brown though that will not show up in the Classic.

Apparently, you are not in the majority. I would think far more people dislike the connections than the horse. It gets collapsed though. People start rooting against the horse, although they don't like that a horse like this ends up where he ends up and who he ends up with, or the bashing turns to hatred and it's not longer about the sport. Like I've always said -- this is a sport and business of self expression and that's what makes the world go 'round.

Eric

We will see. I wouldn't be surprised if Curlin doesn't go -- 1000% however not due to ducking anyone. I agree, he has taken on all comers and will. Same label though -- a trainer who is an easy target. It's just as easy for an owner to be a target, when the so called public at large doesn't agree with a decision, and along comes the "If I owned that horse" syndrome.

I don't know "how much" better Big Brown might get, if at all. However, the same question(s) can be asked about Curlin.

Eric

Curlin doesn't need to get better. He has already proven he is a tremendous talent. Big Brown needs to get faster, much faster to take on Curlin. He might do it. We just have to hope he stays around. Although I suspect he will retired with a mysterious injury right after Casino Drive beats him.

Seems like folks are trying to drive a wedge between BB and greatness. I'd say if he wins the triple crown he's pretty damn good. We've had threads before about how grueling this series is and how there'll will never be another triple crown. A new fan might think Curlin was the last.

sorta like Rags To Riches?

:cool:

No. Rags WON the Belmont. :) She raced again after it too.

I 100% disagree...who else should he race exactly?? After every race people say "who has he beat"? The answer is he has beat everyone he has ran against.Thats who. Who has Casino Drive beat? MintLane, Tomcito, Readys Echo...I feel Casino Drive is the one that is unproven. Amazing...You can jump on the Casino Drive bandwagon, we will see June 7th.

I agree. I've thought Curlin had incredible talent from day one. My point is that Curlin might still be getting better. I don't think we've seen it all yet, and of course Big Brown has to step up -- perhaps big time -- to tangle with Curlin.

The mysterious injury nonsense is always overplayed by the conspiracy thinking fan. I heard it about RTR and didn't buy it at all. We hear it about all the 3yo colts -- although last year, all of the "Big 3" went straight through to the BC Classic. People get upset that we don't see them as 4yo's and have to blame and point fingers.

BTW, regarding the Casino Drive discussion -- sorry, but you are on your own. I'd be a bit careful if I were you -- don't smoke too much of that stuff, LOL.

Eric

I hope Curlin opts for the Japan Cup Dirt - Big Brown runs in the Arc - and the Breeders Cup Classic features three bad longshot turf marathoners who take to the synthetic track - and make up a giant trifecta.

Malibu Moonshine over Successful Appeal and Zenyatta

Everyone Hates A Winner. Deal With It, Triple Crown Is Going Down, We Have All Waited 30 Years F0r This! Writers Have Nothin Better To Do Than Pick, Pick, Pick, Like A Bunch Of Bitches Yappin On Their Cells All Day. I Know, I Was Married To One Of Those Cacklers. So Lets Get It On! Casino Sushi Vs. Have A Brown Day. Go Brown And End The Long Nightmare.

Fortunately for Big Brown, he doesn't have to be a super horse to win the Triple Crown-- he just has to be better than the best horses of his generation. He is proving that he is just that. I don't think you can really fault Big Brown for having been foaled in a year when the crop was weaker than usual . . .

Nobody really complained when it was Smarty Jones going for the Crown, or Silver Charm.

People have not been screaming for a Triple Crown winner for the sake of having a Triple Crown winner. It's a call for a super horse, who in turn, because of ability, can win the Triple Crown.

I Know We Dont Have Big Red Here, But It Would Be Nice Anyway.

All this REGURGITATING is getting old. IF in fact the crop is weaker than usual THEN why weren't ALL THE EXPERTS ALL OVER BIG BROWN BEFORE THE DERBY?
Wouldn't you take $6.80 on a mortal lock? And he was a mortal lock IF the rest of the crop is crap. Right?

Wonder why, rather than spending time disseminating all this BS about the crop and BB's limitations (initially), some of these DOOFUSES weren't mortgaging their houses to get $6.80 (or that sweet $37.00 double with Proud Spell).

I'm sure you know this, but the best horse doesn't always win the Derby. I didn't think he was a mortal lock coming out of the 20 hole with only 3 starts under his belt. Sorry ...

I didn't cash a ticket on the Derby, so I feel like a real dumbass, but the above two reasons were reason enough to make me stay away.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If Curlin faces Big Brown on tupperware, it won't prove anything other than which horse is faster on a fake surface that is nothing like dirt. Hopefully they meet before that on dirt.

I find many expert handicappers to subscribe to the following. Until a horse runs a very fast race they simply do not consider a horse to be any faster then the horses tried speed. More likely then not they are right but it seems that they never break discipline. A horse is only as fast as they have run. I think there are exceptions which include Smarty Jones and Big Brown recently. Both are never going to be consider more then nice colt because never ever had that scary fast race. Whatever works for you I guess?

That is because most horses don't run faster. Sure, a few will burn you, but at 2 to 1, and many times less, who really cares? You'll do better in the long run assuming they aren't faster than the numbers they have run.

By the way, Smarty ran fast.

who are the experts anyway??

I agree..They fool you thinking that they are faster then they are. It's hard to say how good Big Brown is but he really has an amazing start..

and why would any expert that was skeptical of Big brown before the Derby, not have modified his opinion by now?? its like if you weren't raving and drooling about this horse before the derby, you supposedly don't know anything.

That's an easy one..Because Big Brown hasn't run a Big BSF as far as I can summize Beyer feels he is only as good as his best BSF which is just ok for a G1 3 year colt

completely disagree with the first, agree with the second, disagree with the third, and we really just need the various factions in racing to work together on signal, handle, etc.

i agree with that completely. we want to see something awesome-not the best of a bad bunch.

as for casino drive, if you agree with beyer that big brown is still untested, i don't know how you can then jump to casino drive, who is even more of a question mark.