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-   -   Do you think PETA would be interested? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22373)

10 pnt move up 05-10-2008 09:45 PM
Do you think PETA would be interested?
 
In a story of a horse that the rider tried to scratch at the gate, that the track vet refused to scratch and that horse breaks down in the stretch of the race?

RolloTomasi 05-10-2008 10:32 PM
Sounds like Horatio Nelson at the Epsom Derby a couple of years ago.

10 pnt move up 05-10-2008 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
Sounds like Horatio Nelson at the Epsom Derby a couple of years ago.
Dont remember that, was it a big deal?

RolloTomasi 05-10-2008 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
Dont remember that, was it a big deal?
The jock, Kieren Fallon, was worried about how the horse warmed up. He had the veterinarian and trainer, Aiden O'Brien, examine the horse at the gate. Delayed the start 10 minutes or so before they deemed him fit to run. He broke down a furlong or so out and had to be put down.

There was certainly an uproar within the racing community, but seeing how it was overseas, I don't think the American press made much of it.

10 pnt move up 05-10-2008 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
The jock, Kieren Fallon, was worried about how the horse warmed up. He had the veterinarian and trainer, Aiden O'Brien, examine the horse at the gate. Delayed the start 10 minutes or so before they deemed him fit to run. He broke down a furlong or so out and had to be put down.

There was certainly an uproar within the racing community, but seeing how it was overseas, I don't think the American press made much of it.
wow, thats what happened today as well.

sundaysilenceforever 05-10-2008 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
wow, thats what happened today as well.
Where did this happen today?

Pedigree Ann 05-11-2008 09:35 AM
Always thought it was bad karma to name a horse after a hero who died in the midst of his greatest victory.

Rootdog1 05-11-2008 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
wow, thats what happened today as well.
Was this at Hollywood? That was one bad scene. Based on no inside information, I had my doubts based on her going off form and being scratched the last few times. Just a bad bad day.

TheSpyder 05-11-2008 09:42 AM
New Movement
 

TheSpyder 05-11-2008 09:45 AM
Another good one
 

10 pnt move up 05-11-2008 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootdog1
Was this at Hollywood? That was one bad scene. Based on no inside information, I had my doubts based on her going off form and being scratched the last few times. Just a bad bad day.
yes

saratogabrit 05-11-2008 10:32 AM
I was at Philadelphia Park the day of the 2006 Derby and didn't go back to the UK until after the Belmont the following weekend.

Horatio Nelson was discussed a lot but the RSPCA basically has a much better relationship with those that run racing than PETA does.

As an example the RSPCA will strive to work with Aintree to make the Grand National as safe it's humanly possible to make it.

eajinabi 05-11-2008 11:30 AM
Actually I remebered it hppening in 2005 in the Jim Dandy Stakes at Saratoga.
Jerry Bailey was aboard Nobles Causeway and he felt those horse was not right in the post parade and requested it to be scratched. The horse was scratched and Nick Zito was furious at bailey for even suggesting it.

Turns out ZIto enters him back a week later with a new jock and the horse instantly injures himself right after the start.

TheSpyder 05-11-2008 12:05 PM
Remember that one too.

Spyder
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
Actually I remebered it hppening in 2005 in the Jim Dandy Stakes at Saratoga.
Jerry Bailey was aboard Nobles Causeway and he felt those horse was not right in the post parade and requested it to be scratched. The horse was scratched and Nick Zito was furious at bailey for even suggesting it.

Turns out ZIto enters him back a week later with a new jock and the horse instantly injures himself right after the start.

my miss storm cat 05-11-2008 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
The jock, Kieren Fallon, was worried about how the horse warmed up. He had the veterinarian and trainer, Aiden O'Brien, examine the horse at the gate. Delayed the start 10 minutes or so before they deemed him fit to run. He broke down a furlong or so out and had to be put down.

There was certainly an uproar within the racing community, but seeing how it was overseas, I don't think the American press made much of it.
God, I'll never forget that.....

... and you're right, Fallon did NOT want to ride him.

A ******* shame.

Rupert Pupkin 05-11-2008 01:26 PM
That was absolutely sickening yesterday at Hollywood Park. Unfortunately I was there in person. They had to put the horse down on the track. Hell should be payed for that incident. Mike Smith was furious. He threw down his whip. He's lucky that he didn't get killed. The story going around, which I have heard from two different trainers is that Mike wanted to scratch the horse before the race because she didn't feel right, but the vet said the horse was fine. I think Mike Smith can tell when a horse is lame. He's only been riding for about 25 years. There should be a few people fired including the track vet, if in fact she refused to scratch the horse.

Rupert Pupkin 05-11-2008 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
Actually I remebered it hppening in 2005 in the Jim Dandy Stakes at Saratoga.
Jerry Bailey was aboard Nobles Causeway and he felt those horse was not right in the post parade and requested it to be scratched. The horse was scratched and Nick Zito was furious at bailey for even suggesting it.

Turns out ZIto enters him back a week later with a new jock and the horse instantly injures himself right after the start.
Let's not forget Rags to Riches pulling up lame in her workout. But they refused to give her time off or retire her because they were going to run her in the Breeder's Cup no matter what. It was no surprise when she fractured her ankle in her next race. Luckily she survived.

Alot of the stuff that goes on in this business is absolutely disgraceful. If they banned all drugs, the number of breakdowns would decrease dramatically because sore horses would be able to feel pain and they would protect themselves.

10 pnt move up 05-11-2008 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Alot of the stuff that goes on in this business is absolutely disgraceful. If they banned all drugs, the number of breakdowns would decrease dramatically because sore horses would be able to feel pain and they would protect themselves.

I think that is the big secret in racing and could not agree more with that statement.

pgiaco 05-11-2008 02:18 PM
Wow, I can't believe the vet overruled the jock. I was under the impression that, at least in NY, the vet has to defer to the rider. I had that mutt Bridgmohan scratch one at the gate on me at Saratoga last year and was told by the Doc that his hands were tied by the rider's decision.

blackthroatedwind 05-12-2008 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiaco
Wow, I can't believe the vet overruled the jock. I was under the impression that, at least in NY, the vet has to defer to the rider. I had that mutt Bridgmohan scratch one at the gate on me at Saratoga last year and was told by the Doc that his hands were tied by the rider's decision.

I don't believe it either.

ninetoone 05-12-2008 02:03 PM
the vet can't force Smith to ride can he?

Rootdog1 05-12-2008 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
That was absolutely sickening yesterday at Hollywood Park. Unfortunately I was there in person. They had to put the horse down on the track. Hell should be payed for that incident. Mike Smith was furious. He threw down his whip. He's lucky that he didn't get killed. The story going around, which I have heard from two different trainers is that Mike wanted to scratch the horse before the race because she didn't feel right, but the vet said the horse was fine. I think Mike Smith can tell when a horse is lame. He's only been riding for about 25 years. There should be a few people fired including the track vet, if in fact she refused to scratch the horse.
I heard this as well.

10 pnt move up 05-12-2008 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninetoone
the vet can't force Smith to ride can he?
no but even as someone metioned here Zito was furious at Bailey when he scratched a horse, and that was jerry freaking bailey not someone who struggles to get mounts.

I highly doubt anyone would admit to any of this.

Rupert Pupkin 05-13-2008 10:41 PM
I got some more information on the incident today. From what I heard, Mike Smith did not actually ask the vet to scratch the horse. He did ask the vet to take a look at the horse because he thought that the horse felt a little off. So he basically asked the vet her opinion. She said that she thought the horse looked alright.

You can't necessarily blame the vet for the incident. There are sore horses running every day and most of them don't break down. In addition, it's not an exact science and this horse may not have looked too bad. Sometimes the jockey can feel something that's very subtle that may not be visible to most observers.

letswastemoney 05-14-2008 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmfhb411
They are interested in promoting themselves on the biggest stage possible,
while only working in the path of least resistance. When something like the
Eight Belles incident takes place, that's right up their alley.
Ask any of them about a horse named Cadillac Cruiser who is no longer with us.
The only response you'll get other than "huh ?", will undoubtedly be
"no, I'm not aware of him. What happened ?".
If PETA really cared, they would have been all over that incident and been
just as enthusiastic about exposing what they hate about our game.

OH THAT'S RIGHT !!!! That requires work !

Allowing blogs on their site, from know-nothings who bitched about
Eight Bells running ( yeah that's right, the author claimed she raced )
for the 2nd consecutive day on 5/3/2008, doesn't require any work at all.
When you have a store, you don't advertise your smallest products. You advertise your flashiest items and hope they come in and buy the smaller stuff as well.

Now, PETA focusing on Eight Belles and ignoring the little horses might seem like bad logic, but if you think about if they win whatever they're trying to do, that effect would trickle down to all horses as well, so it makes sense. I don't see the problem on focusing on the most popular horse, as if they focused on some $5,000 claimer no one would care about their cause. But by focusing on Eight Belles, they are trying to make people look at all the racehorses in general, and they get that attention by focusing on the most famous one.

sumitas 05-14-2008 12:26 PM
I recall Brutally Frank was dropped way down his last race. That was a red flag. He broke down.

NoChanceToDance 05-17-2008 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat
God, I'll never forget that.....

... and you're right, Fallon did NOT want to ride him.

A ******* shame.
That wasn't the case at all. Fallon said he had took a couple of wrong steps on the way to the start, and thought it was better to be safe than sorry to get him checked over. All was fine with the horse at the start.

It was a horrible coincidence. I loved that horse, and am good friends with the girl who looked after him and rode him every morning (as you know). It was a terrible accident.

Everyone blamed Aidan that day, but it was no ones fault.

I do miss that little horse, though. I hate it when Derby day comes every year.


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