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-   -   5/10 (BEL): Peter Pan; Bold Ruler (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22263)

Kasept 05-07-2008 07:44 AM

5/10 (BEL): Peter Pan; Bold Ruler
 
8th (4:43) Bold Ruler H. (G3)

6 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $100,000

1 Man of Danger Velazquez J R 115 L
2 Callmetony Prado E S 114 L
3 Lucky Island (ARG) Garcia Alan 115 L
4 Forefathers Desormeaux K J 115 L
5 Executive Fleet Lopez C C 115 L
6 Gold and Roses Maragh R 114 L
7 Council Member Castellano J J 115 L



9th (5:15) Peter Pan S. (G2)

1 1/8 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $200,000

1 Casino Drive Desormeaux K J 116
2 Tomcito Velasquez C 120 L
3 Mint Lane Coa E M 116 L
4 Deputyville Espinoza J L 116 L
1A Spark Candle Chavez J F 116 Blk-On
5 Golden Spikes Prado E S 116 L
6 Ready's Echo Velazquez J R 116 L
7 Cosmic Castellano J J 116 L
8 Fast Talking Garcia Alan 116 L

A-Coupled: Casino Drive and Spark Candle

Coach Pants 05-07-2008 08:01 AM

Horrendous.

Kasept 05-07-2008 08:04 AM

Not entirely.. Cosmic & Lieutenant Ron are real horses.

blackthroatedwind 05-07-2008 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Horrendous.


Actually, especially by 2008 3YO standards, it's not.

Lieutenant Ron has only run twice but has been pretty spectacular in both starts and it will be more than interesting to see him stretch out. He is on a very short list of 3YOs, along with Harlem Rocker and Biker Boy, who MIGHT be able to resurrect this division as the year progresses.

You also have the US debut of the Japanese horse Casino Drive who is a half to Jazil and Rags to Riches. Now, I am highly dubious of this horse, and hope he is overbet, but it has been proven ( Deep Impact? ) that an Asian horse can draw a great deal of positive interest in racing. I don't know about you, but I feel like this seems like a particularly good time for that.

Plus, you have Ready's Echo, a horse that I believe is, if anything, a closing sprinter. However, he sparked a lot of discussion after his visually impressive debut ( where he finished second ) and hasn't run that badly in his two races this year.

You also have a green, but potentially OK, Phipps runner in Cosmic. No, his last race was hardly impressive against what should have been inferior competition, but he wouldn't be the first Shug horse to improve over time.

No, it's not an accomplished based star-studded cast, but considering what we've seen from this division so far this year, it's a pretty interesting race....at least right now.

Coach Pants 05-07-2008 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Not entirely.. Cosmic & Lieutenant Ron are real horses.

Will you get 9-5 or better on Cosmic?

blackthroatedwind 05-07-2008 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Will you get 9-5 or better on Cosmic?


A lot better.

Coach Pants 05-07-2008 08:29 AM

Tomshito will probably be the favorite.

Andy do you actually believe Lieutenant Ron will be better going a route of ground? I sure don't.

blackthroatedwind 05-07-2008 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
Tomshito will probably be the favorite.

Andy do you actually believe Lieutenant Ron will be better going a route of ground? I sure don't.


Lieutenant Ron is a cinch to be the favorite. Will he be better going a route? Unlikely....but if he is then he might be the best 3YO in the country. I don't have a big opinion on him, as he's only run twice, and once was in the mud, but he's been pretty impressive so far.

I can't believe Tomcito would even be second or third choice....but one can dream. He's not much horse....to say the least.

lemoncrush 05-07-2008 08:46 AM

I haven't seen Cosmic or Lt. Ron run, but I have really liked what I've seen from Ready's Echo. His 3-yo debut was impressive (he did get a dream trip, however).
He was entered in an allowance race in Keenland last month, and looked to be much the best. He lost by about a 1/2 length to Limestone Edge due to the short-stretch and "early" finish line they had in place on certain races.
ON TVG Ken Rudolph actaully called Ready's Echo the easy winner because he was thrown off by the early finish line as well (it was fairly comical when Matt Carothers had to correct him).

asudevil 05-07-2008 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemoncrush
I haven't seen Cosmic or Lt. Ron run, but I have really liked what I've seen from Ready's Echo. His 3-yo debut was impressive (he did get a dream trip, however).
He was entered in an allowance race in Keenland last month, and looked to be much the best. He lost by about a 1/2 length to Limestone Edge due to the short-stretch and "early" finish line they had in place on certain races.
ON TVG Ken Rudolph actaully called Ready's Echo the easy winner because he was thrown off by the early finish line as well (it was fairly comical when Matt Carothers had to correct him).

Kent eased up on Limestone at the end....was in hand and in control. Ready's Echo is a very nice horse. If he can overcome his gate breaking issues, he should make lots of noise this week.

Better Than Honour 05-07-2008 09:40 AM

This is better field than the Preakness if you throw out Big Brown and if Harlem Rocker doesn't run.

Casino Drive will obviously need the race. It is just a prep for the Belmont. His mother has done quite well in that race. :)

There are some shooters in here that might be better than all the derby horses with the exception of the winner and the filly.

Travis Stone 05-07-2008 09:44 AM

I'm praying nightly we get a nice, quality wave of late-season 3-year-olds, but time is running out.

the_fat_man 05-07-2008 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemoncrush
He was entered in an allowance race in Keenland last month, and looked to be much the best. He lost by about a 1/2 length to Limestone Edge due to the short-stretch and "early" finish line they had in place on certain races.
ON TVG Ken Rudolph actaully called Ready's Echo the easy winner because he was thrown off by the early finish line as well (it was fairly comical when Matt Carothers had to correct him).

Sounds like he got HOSED worse that the MAGIC in Detroit the other night.

I wonder if that PUNK, David Stern, is involved in this somehow.

The Bid 05-07-2008 11:33 AM

Tomshito wont hit the board again

philcski 05-07-2008 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemoncrush
I haven't seen Cosmic or Lt. Ron run, but I have really liked what I've seen from Ready's Echo. His 3-yo debut was impressive (he did get a dream trip, however).
He was entered in an allowance race in Keenland last month, and looked to be much the best. He lost by about a 1/2 length to Limestone Edge due to the short-stretch and "early" finish line they had in place on certain races.
ON TVG Ken Rudolph actaully called Ready's Echo the easy winner because he was thrown off by the early finish line as well (it was fairly comical when Matt Carothers had to correct him).

FYI, all mile and a sixteenth races @ KEE are run with that short finish (so they have a little bit of a runup to the first turn.)

Note the 2nd place finisher of that race came back to win the 3YO graded turf stake on Friday @ CD (Tizdejavu) at 21-1.

Danzig 05-07-2008 09:28 PM

am i the only one who's tired of seeing tomcito's name in print?

now watch the damn horse win.




nahhhh

blackthroatedwind 05-07-2008 09:29 PM

I wouldn't worry about that horse winning.

He couldn't even get close to Smooth Air.

SniperSB23 05-07-2008 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
am i the only one who's tired of seeing tomcito's name in print?

now watch the damn horse win.




nahhhh

Not a chance here but I wouldn't put a clunk up third in the Belmont past him in this terrible crop.

Danzig 05-07-2008 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
I wouldn't worry about that horse winning.

He couldn't even get close to Smooth Air.


ah, yes....smooth air. :cool:

Travis Stone 05-07-2008 11:41 PM

Tomcito will surely be overbet.

_ed_ 05-07-2008 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Not a chance here but I wouldn't put a clunk up third in the Belmont past him in this terrible crop.

How about a Jazil-esque win in the Belmont? He might be the only one still going at the end of it.

SniperSB23 05-08-2008 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ed_
How about a Jazil-esque win in the Belmont? He might be the only one still going at the end of it.

Denis of Cork seems a likely Jazil candidate. I don't think Tomcito is fast enough to be Jazil, even in this slow crop.

Kasept 05-08-2008 09:22 AM

Gr. III Bold Ruler Saturday too... Prospective field to be drawn today...


Executive Fleet
Council Member
Forefathers
Lucky Island
Man of Danger
Callmetony
Rondo
Ravalo
Gold and Roses
Gold Trippi.

zippyneedsawin 05-08-2008 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Gr. III Bold Ruler Saturday too... Prospective field to be drawn today...


Executive Fleet
Council Member
Forefathers
Lucky Island
Man of Danger
Callmetony
Rondo
Ravalo
Gold and Roses
Gold Trippi.


not bad at all for a grade 3!

lemoncrush 05-08-2008 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
[b][color="green"][



9th (5:15) Peter Pan S. (G2)

1 1/8 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $200,000

1 Casino Drive Desormeaux K J 116
2 Tomcito Velasquez C 120 L
3 Mint Lane Coa E M 116 L
4 Deputyville Espinoza J L 116 L
1A Spark Candle Chavez J F 116 Blk-On
5 Golden Spikes Prado E S 116 L
6 Ready's Echo Velazquez J R 116 L
7 Cosmic Castellano J J 116 L
8 Fast Talking Garcia Alan 116 L

A-Coupled: Casino Drive and Spark Candle

What happened to Lt. Ron? Hope there's still enough pace for Ready's Echo to be a factor.

Travis Stone 05-08-2008 04:06 PM

Fast Talking is the key for a pace that will set-up for closers.

freddymo 05-08-2008 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Gr. III Bold Ruler Saturday too... Prospective field to be drawn today...


Executive Fleet
Council Member
Forefathers
Lucky Island
Man of Danger
Callmetony
Rondo
Ravalo
Gold and Roses
Gold Trippi.

Hasn't Rondo done enough? I figure he will make a great stallion in Washington State.

blackthroatedwind 05-08-2008 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Fast Talking is the key for a pace that will set-up for closers.


Have you looked at the pps?

Coach Pants 05-08-2008 09:20 PM

This is Golden Spikes' best shot at a Grade 2. He'll never get another setup like this.

blackthroatedwind 05-08-2008 09:33 PM

And, he'll never win a Grade 2.

hockey2315 05-08-2008 09:36 PM

I'm starting to think Golden Spikes is a bum, too. I keep chasing him because of the pedigree and connections but I think it's time to give it up. . .

Coach Pants 05-08-2008 09:42 PM

This is a horrendous race. I'm standing by that.

NTamm1215 05-08-2008 09:45 PM

I'll need a lot more than the 5/2 you're probably going to get on Golden Spikes in order to get excited. His trip was so perfect in the Illinois Derby and he still had no punch whatsoever in the stretch. That was the third consecutive time he went the wrong way in the stretch and all three of those races happened to be at nine furlongs.

If you are going to try to beat the Japanese entry and Golden Spikes (which is advisable) the value will be there on everyone else and there are a couple who are interesting.

NT

hockey2315 05-08-2008 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
I'll need a lot more than the 5/2 you're probably going to get on Golden Spikes in order to get excited. His trip was so perfect in the Illinois Derby and he still had no punch whatsoever in the stretch. That was the third consecutive time he went the wrong way in the stretch and all three of those races happened to be at nine furlongs.

If you are going to try to beat the Japanese entry and Golden Spikes (which is advisable) the value will be there on everyone else and there are a couple who are interesting.

NT

To be fair - I think the Illinois Derby has been proven to be a toss-out. . . But I agree that there's some value in the race and it isn't from any of the foreigners or GS. . .

NTamm1215 05-08-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315
To be fair - I think the Illinois Derby has been proven to be a toss-out. . . But I agree that there's some value in the race and it isn't from any of the foreigners or GS. . .

I don't necessarily agree that the Ill Derby is a toss. Recapturetheglory ran a very strong race in the Illinois Derby, capitalizing on a great pace setup and he came back and ran a good race in the Derby. Z Humor ran like the one-paced plodder that he is in both the Ill and Ky Derbies. Denis was wide and well behind a slow pace at Hawthorne which is a death sentence.

It was a toss for D of C but a horse like Golden Spikes who could do no better than a distant second where he sputtered through the lane, I condsider it telling. If anything about it is a toss IMO it's GS's 95 Beyer.

NT

NTamm1215 05-08-2008 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
This is a horrendous race. I'm standing by that.

I certainly wouldn't bother calling this a Grade II, or a good group, but this field is actually quite a bit more respectable than last year's when Sightseeing ran down Prom Shoes. I don't have the PPs but I do think that since then those two monsters have combined for 1 stakes win.

NT

blackthroatedwind 05-08-2008 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants
This is a horrendous race. I'm standing by that.


It got a lot worse after Lieutenant Ron got injured. I think we all understand that this is a bad bunch of 3YOs and this race is no exception without Lieutenant Ron.

philcski 05-08-2008 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
I certainly wouldn't bother calling this a Grade II, or a good group, but this field is actually quite a bit more respectable than last year's when Sightseeing ran down Prom Shoes. I don't have the PPs but I do think that since then those two monsters have combined for 1 stakes win.

NT

I was going to say the same thing.
That field was truly horrendous.

VOL JACK 05-08-2008 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
I certainly wouldn't bother calling this a Grade II, or a good group, but this field is actually quite a bit more respectable than last year's when Sightseeing ran down Prom Shoes. I don't have the PPs but I do think that since then those two monsters have combined for 1 stakes win.

NT

Prom shoes just won a stake at Oaklawn.. Fifth Season 100k

hockey2315 05-09-2008 10:54 AM

Morning Line
 
The Japanese entry at 2-1 may be the underlay of the millenium. . . Cosmic at 8-1 might be the value in here. . .


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