NYRA denies stalls, bars Matties
 

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93802.html

Acting on TRPB info of irregular betting patterns.. Involves his well known brothers that are prominent on the capping tourney circuit.

A bit much.... Why would it be a big deal if his brothers like to enjoy horseracing as well. Just on the other side of the fence. So what if they cash a bet on his very few winners?

The stiff family finally gets their comeuppance! Very interesting..

I'm not sure you totally understand what's being implied. . .

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the Matties family "practices".. This isn't innocuous stuff we're talking about.

I know the guy... talk to him occasionally, and to be honest, he ain't smart enough to put one over. This is kind of ridiculous. His horses go off at 30-1 in every race because they're terrible.

This part I don't understand (and I know nothing of the Matties family) - what wagering accounts/wagering sites does the TRPB have access to?

And why does Hayward say, "We're not saying there was any race-fixing or anything like that going on."

Isn't that exactly what they are saying?

that's how you say it w/out opening yourself up for a libel/slander suit

:D

But seriously ... what about the account access? Doesn't that worry folks?

I'd like to hear more of the dirt..I'm naive to this whole story/background

He makes no bones about the fact that he and his brothers (who coincendentally own about 90% of his stock) like to bet- and bet big. This is no secret. His horses generally suck and go off at long odds, and he wins at like 5%, outside of the inner track where he's a stellar 10-15%. Not sure what the big deal is here. It's not like he needs to artificially inflate the odds of his horses to bet them... they take care of that themselves. Even if his brothers are betting against their runners, (a) that's not illegal and (b) probably makes sense, because of the reasons stated above.

Like I said, I know the guy, and he ain't the brightest bulb (but definitely a nice guy who geniunely loves his horses). There's no "fixing" going on here.

I don't doubt what you said, but there has to be something going on here?

I have to admit, I am not familiar with them at all.. Please fill me in.

you think this might have to be in regards to that putover last year on that big P6 day? I can't remember but the horse was like 42/1 or something int he first leg of the sequence and won by like 4 lengths??

That was Saratoga almost 9 months ago.... and that horse was yet another in the line of impossible to figure NYB turf racing. Anybody that watches NYRA regularly knows that most of these horses aren't very good, so they beat each other up, sometimes with headscratching results. Honestly I think he was more surprised than anyone, I saw him a couple days before that and he said flat out, the horse had issues and had no shot [and he looked it on recent form, even though he had run a few decent turf races in the past], and when i sent him a congratulatory text he said he was more shocked than the crowd. It was the first race he'd won at Saratoga in like 8 years or something. More than likely it was something on the inner, based on the timing of the penalty handown.

The action by the New York Racing Com. was handled horribly especially when someone is giving interviews on the subject to high profile columnists with the DRF.

The game already is thought of by far too many as a simmering cesspool of corruption and back door prearranged results without another set of half disclosed reasons to question the legitimacy of fair racing and wagering at another major track in this country.

The Tampa/Delaware/Great Lakes jockey scandal was the last half story to make a horse player question whether the criminals were the jocks or the track administration that closed business on a half a dozen well known pilots of horse flesh with nary a criminal charge of conspiracy or fraud. The damage to the game and the families of those men was in itself a felony yet charged or settled.

If there was a crime here in New York or through a wagering outlet file it or shut the (blank) up. I am sick of these cowards with loose mouths giving interviews to national media to do their dirty work and ruin a reputation about supposed wrongs that are not handled by the judicial system.

If the track admin or racing commission chooses to hide behind the "private business" shield for despicable but legal acts that cast guilt on a trainer with no due process then have the decency to do so quietly without the cowardly need to gather the court of public opinion to their side because they have a forum at the DRF few can afford.

This story weakens the game and the people who make a living at it who do an honest business for an honest wage and New York Racing should be appalled by this latest circus and it's contribution to why racing is thought of as having the credibility of wrestling.

Didn't hear yesterday's show but did you address this on air? Again a subject that screams for Andy's thoughts I am sure he is at least familiar with why this was done.

Isn't this typical of what the TRBP did to the seven riders that were suspended for "irregular betting patterns." It's been almost two years and no evidence has been produced but most of these riders still are prevented from plying their trade.

Don't know any of the facts here because the TRBP never presents any facts. The take punitive action, claim that they can't say anything because the matter is being investigated and the people involved have their careers ruined.

We all want a clean game but you have to wonder about the people that are in charge of monitoring the game. How is the Matteis family with a trainer and two brothers that bet a lot of money any different than Barry Schwartz who is partners with Ernie Dahlman who not only bets more money than Matteis but owns a big chunk of a rebate shope himself.

Just mention "New Yokr Billy" to the TRBP and they break out into a cold sweat.

really a no win situation for the track. mention was made of the jocks who were refused entry to tracks, and then you have stall space denied due to possible problems. in all cases, attempts have been made to protect the betting public, but they're now 'wrong' for having done so-since there may not be enough evidence to convict in a court of law. however, the owners of these tracks have a right to deny service, or space, to whomever.
can't help but wonder how much outrage there would be had their been proof presented that there were shady activities, the track had an inkling, but did nothing due to lack of enough substantial evidence to make a case.

can't please all the people all of the time-so the tracks must do the best they can.

look at it this way, if you had an employee that you were 99.99% sure was stealing from you, but you didn't have enough to call the cops to arrest--would he still be working for you?

I'm sure Billy will be excited to know he was mentioned here. It would, undoubtably, be the pinnacle of his existance.

Hadn't seen the Grenig piece until after we were off the air... Will touch on it tonight but likely not get into any guests until next week. Much tougher to react to this kind of thing when doing show on the road like this. I would only want reaction from parties directly involved or affected by this meaning Matties, Curtis Linnell or someone like him from TRPB, and NYRA.

While this particular situation seems at first glance, (and without complete details of the scenario involved), to be unfair to the Matties family, I also think it is a mistake to use the incident as an opportunity to roundly criticize the attempts of TRPB to police the game. Comments that say the game has a tarnished image and actions like this make it worse seem incongruent. Unless you want state/federal government interfearing in the management of the game even more, the work of TRPB and ARCI needs to be supported. The same people carrying on about 'past posting' would do well to more widely support the work of TRPB/ARCI. They're the ones working hardest to 'get it right'.

I agree Kasept. Ethics, honesty, fairness to the fans and wagering public, humane treatment of the horse, respect for the employees, all these standards need our support.

Hear hear.. By the logic of some, it seems that, to avoid potential negative PR, they would prefer horseplayers quietly get screwed than have governing bodies make visible efforts to clean things up..

Yeah, that too.

Listen, I'm not saying we need to indict the Matties family based on this alone, and my comments from earlier were tongue-in-cheek, but I really hope that those of you opposing this action don't think that this came out of the blue. This is something that has been a long time coming in New York.

Okay fair enough but don't you think giving interviews to DRF about this is a bit over the top. DRF would have never run with this if they didn't have someone feeding them info that they could defend in court if brought there. If you need to take an action like this do it quietly don't go public.

And Yes Deb I would excuse them from my affairs but wouldn't do so through the Washington Post.....

Glad to see your heart is beating BTW......

How about telling us what this is all about from your perspective. You have always shown that you have quite a history book about New York Racing in your head. This place misses your contributions to issues that affect the game.

Uh, I'm pretty sure DRF was going to get wind of it sooner or later, at which point they would want a quote. It's not like there was a front-page tell-all feature on it.. It was basically a blurb with an obligatory quote from Hayward. Not sure what the big deal is.

Hmmm. Gambling on horse racing. What's this game coming to?

Last I checked, this was the United States of America that has a constitution that protects due process. Whether it's Matteis, the seven jockeys or Braulio Baeza, all of us are guaranteed certain rights. What was done to Braulio and Mario was disgraceful. Anyone in the racing industry rushing in to hire them and help them out.

Don't let these people use you for their own agendas. They hide behind "protecting the horseplayer" and yet do nothing about it.

U-ave. Holy Smokes. Good for you. Watch what you say here about NYRA. I posted a question about them here the other day and the thread was REMOVED.

Thread was removed because it's only possible direction was into rancor and nonsense. Dicker's NY Post innuendo-riddled drivel isn't going to drive conversation on my website. Sorry if that editorial stance offends you.

As to the topic at hand, Greg Matties called into ATR tonight and said he would be happy to talk about the situation next week. In the meantime, he can still enter and run horses as of now at NYRA tracks. He was just denied stalls for BEL meet, and was asked to stable elsewhere.

Now that's a joke. We don't want you on our grounds because were not sure about your families shady betting patterns. But for goodness sakes, please enter your horses cause we need the fields big enough for the tris and supers.

OK. Fair enough. No offense taken. But, do us all a favor. If any NYRA trouble ever gets posted again, remove it all. If I see it, I promise I won't respond to any of it. We all need to concentrate on preserving the game.

tongue in cheek?
 

OOtheBox: I hope your tongue was planted firmly in your cheek when commenting on the Matties family's betting patterns. It's my point exactly - where's the proof, where's the evidence? Lots of accusations are made but is there even a semblance of fairness. Like, for instance, a hearing or a chance to respond to the alleged charges. Go back to the Dr. Galvin fiasco where a kangaroo court was held to revoke his license. When he went to court, he won easily. But how many people can afford it. Braulio couldn't and a Hall of Fame rider is left without a means of living or his reputation. The game needs cleaning up but there's too many times where baseless allegations are accepted as fact.

I can't read the article because DRF doesn't recognize my logon.

There was a case where a trainer bet a pick 4 or pick 6 and didn't include his horse in the wager and he was fined.

I don't think trainers shouldn't bet but it would be nice if like Pete Rose they never bet against their own team.

On a related note, personally, I can certainly understand why Andy wouldn't want to give his opinions -- or knowledge -- on the subject, here, in this type of open forum. Yes, I too, very much miss his contributions, but this is a different topic and a monster of a different nature and breed.

Be that as it may, some people will always be unhappy with the way something like this was handled. However, I don't think this is about interviews, comments, articles, etc. Nobody here knows the real story, and by that I mean the evidence, data, etc. that NYRA reacted to. I do think this is very different than the Baeza situation, completely different. The actions taken in each situation were based upon completely different things as well.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty. However, this is not based upon legal proceedings, and actions in courts of law -- not of course until a certain point in the process. I would think the trainer in question has recourse and could easily file a motion and receive a stay pending "his day in court" so to speak. Unless he doesn't have recourse, vis a vis the stall agreement. I haven't read it and I don't apply for stalls.

I view this as very simple -- if the person denied stalls feels they've been wronged or victimized, and they've done nothing wrong, and there is no way that NYRA has any proof to the contrary -- great, take a trip to your attorney and look at your options for recourse. Is that fair? It cuts both ways, but that is the system we have. Does it cost money? Sure does.

As far as what access to betting information NYRA has, I don't know. However, I think NYRA taking the bull by the horns and stating their position from the outset probably puts them on the offensive. For those of you who are on the backstretch everyday, a few times a week, etc. -- you know the rumors are like horse sh1t -- it's everywhere! People have been talking about this incident well before it hit the DRF and the rumors have already gone through several mutations. This decision was made well before the so called announcement. It wasn't ad hoc or off the cuff. That doesn't make it right or valid, but a racing commission, body, authority has certain rights and capabilities -- when you sign a stall agreement. I don't remember everyone getting ready to rally behind Michael Gill, although that too is a completely different issue.

I don't know what evidence they have, but some might think that NYRA is looking at this very closely and with a sharp eye of scrutiny. Others might think they would pull the trigger haphazzardly and without valid cause. Whether they have enough, I guess we'll soon see.

Eric

You really don't see how this is different?

Eric

Doesn't it seem a bit strange that the man can still run his horses at Belmont but that the sanction is a denial of stalls there. Isn't this a little complaining about the criminal element but doing business with them anyway. I am not assuming the guy is guilty but it seems like a very inconsistent way of handling things.

Not strange at all. As a matter of fact it makes sense. We have had the same situation numerous times here in NJ, and in many other states as well. NYRA cannot deny him the right to enter horses, or deny him his livelihood. However, they can deny him stalls. The former is his right. The latter is NYRA's right.

The trainer hasn't lost his license, he's still allowed to participate, etc. Of course only the NYSR&WB can revoke, suspend, etc. a license.

Eric