Bush trying to keep waterboarding
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080308/...B_Lh79QmWs0NUE


I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS.How are you gunna keep Americans from being tortured this same way? I guess he sees it as necessary torture,but everybody is gunna rationalize using it.Goes against American values.They've basically turned us into the same dogs as them.This is what I don't get about a so called "Christian" guy.I can't see Christ doing this.Most of the Christians in HEE HAW LAND are hypocrites like this.

They dont waterboard American prisoners, they behead them. The thought that you or i have any idea what is necessary is laughable. Also the thought that it goes against American values is in direct dispute with the truth that we have used torture in extracting information from prisoners since the country was founded, as does the rest of the world.

To torture(for whatever reason)is against American Values."We" (American people ) have not been in favor of this,and never will be.If the government does it,then it is going against the values of the American people.It may indeed be "in direct dispute" with the truth(that our government is torturing,) but the fact remains that American Values DON'T include the acceptance of torture.For one thing,it is totally against Christ's teachings.So,in the very least,GEEDUBBYA is pissing on his religion when he does this.You can't just keep calling yourself a METHODIST CHRISTIAN if you're gunna keep supporting torture.This guy is gunna go down as the biggest Hypocrite American ever.He is a disgrace....He is a hypocrite,and acting like a dog.He is about as far from "Christian" as he can get(without getting arrested.)

I understand that you are probably under the influence and you live in a socialist place but shouldn't a lefty like you be PRAISING Bush for NOT injecting his own religious views in a matter of national security? Of course not because it does not fit your agenda. If he wanted to ban it and mentioned his religion you would be up in arms about seperation of Church and State and how he was using the bible to make policy. Bush did not invent waterboarding and it is obvious that people who are far more privy to its useage are calling for it. It would be a far more popular move to ban it publically than continue to use it anyway (like Sir Hillary would do) but the guy took a stand that you dont like and now he is a hypocrite? Maybe you should volunteer to do some research on waterboarding? Maybe as a test subject?

He is a hypocrite.The man is constantly pandering to religious conservatives.It's a main reason he got elected.It's against his religion to torture.It's against American values to torture. He is against stem cell due to religion.Against abortion due to religion.Against gay marriage (due to abortion.)He does use religion in his decision making.That's why he is such a complete "in total" hypocrite.He is ignoring Christianity after he ran on Christian themes like "pro-life,"and "family values." When he likes his religion's views,he courts them,but he ignores them with supporting torture.He should be getting all kind of flack from hee haw bible belt about this.If they were really Christian people,then they would stick up for Christ's views in this case,and be outraged that this fellow Christian is a torturing dog.This is why I have so little respect for the south.For the most part,it's a bunch of damn hypocrite scum.

You have to keep religion out of this. He is doing what he thinks is best to protect the country. All these bleeding hearts want us to play by some sort of old time American value rulebook, when the rest of the world does whatever hell it wants. The Palestinines went into a school the other day and killed seven students. They rigged up retarded women a few months ago with pipe bombs. Terrorist groups will use whatever means they have to. I think that the FBI, CIA, and Armed Forces shold have the green light to do whatever is necessary in attempt to gain information on possible attacks US properties around the world. These people have no value for life, so why should we show them any sort of compassion when trying to gain information out of them.

Putting what he thinks is best for troops and security ahead of what people at Church may think. I certainly don't have a problem with that.

Let me be clear.If you're a Christian,then there is no alternate view here.Torture is not in line with Christ's teachings.So,all these people claiming to be Christians should be outraged,but they won't be(because they are f'n hypocrites.)

You can rationalize anything.White Southern Christians rationalized the killing of Blacks.NOW THEY RATIONALIZE torture.We are so far of course now.A Christian majority nation backing torture...beautiful.Christians in name only.Really a bunch of Christian Dogs.

That's what the Germans and Japanese thought too(when they followed their leaders.)I ain't following this pig.I want to know how he calls himself a Methodist Christian,because he is acting like a dog or a pig(not a Christian.) He is a national disgrace,and will go down as the torture president,and mainly the hypocrite president.

Scuds....
the church used to burn folks at the stake and inflict all manner of torture upon them, unfortunately this is nothing new! I agree with you about Bush however...

Yea,when did the church do it? You say that a lot,but how long ago? Do they do it now? I don't talk about the evil Moslems used to do.I talk about what they are doing presently,and this so called "Christian" is acting like a common dog,and I want to see these born againers etc. be just as outraged about this as they are about other things they find against their religion.They need to be religiously consistent(which is what he is totally not like........this is a hypocrite president.)

Whether the church did it yesterday or a couple centuries ago, my point remains....the teachings of Christ take a back seat when personal gain comes to town. "Christians" like Bush, Falwell and the like are horrified about abortion but support capital punishment and killing folks with zeal...nothing new here and my only point is that GWB is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

This is the point.This is a majority Christian country,but there is more outrage about OLD TESTAMENT stuff than when guys like Bush do things that are in direct opposition to Christ's teachings. There is just a complete lack of concern for things said by CHRIST.For BUSH to do what he has done(a Christian demanding that torture be used) shows you he thinks the majority of Christians will ignore Christ's teachings about this.It's total hypocrisy,and if Christians aren't upset about it,then they are simply hypocrite Christians(same as this dog.)

I agree...and believe me, there will be no outcry here! I believe in free will and responsibility for one's acts. I believe that I am responsible for everything I have done in my life...good and bad...things I did as a teenager and young man as well as what I did yesterday and what I will do tomorrow; why should the church get a pass just cause they stopped torturing and killing and replaced those things with a philosophy of fear and superiority? Bush is nothing more than a continuation of the hypocracy!

this country isn't a theocracy, and religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Well,for one thing,whoever did those acts isn't alive.You are.I don't blame the religion for his support of torture.I blame him for ignoring Christ. I have no use for most all of the Old Testament,anyways.That's why I say I wished they would pay attention to Christ (instead of stuff he didn't even write.) You say the church has a philosophy of fear and superiority? Show me religions that don't.What are they.It ain't the big 3 or 4.Maybe BUDDHISM.This is not a thread about how great (or not) Christianity itself is.It's about hypocrisy.

Every national election is impacted hugely by religion.He pandered to religious Conservatives.They are his base.Now he thumbs his nose at Christ's teachings,and quite frankly it's time for his base to call him on it,or they are religious hypocrates (just like he is.) Every time the Conservatives want a good turn out in a state they have a referendum on gay marriage on the ballot.We wouldn't ever have had Bush as the president if religious conservatives weren't dominating blocks of states for him.If religion doesn't matter then why is he against stem cell etc.?

from what i read on the veto, waterboarding isn't even in use right now by the cia, or the military--both groups have banned it.

the bill he vetoed would limit the cia to the same 19 interrogation techniques the military uses. a veto does not mean the cia would suddenly allow waterboarding. i don't know what they currently use, but apparently he doesn't want the cia to lose some things it currently does allow--and right now, that does NOT include waterboarding.

there is stem cell research, just no fetal stem cell research funded with federal money. to be honest, that suits me just fine-but not due to religion. the federal govt was never supposed to include things like that.
i neither know, nor care, who bush considers his base. this veto would be for what is regarded as for the best for this nation and the safety of its citizens.

No,it's torture.You want to have torture allowed then fine,but not 1 of the candidates running are for it,and this is gunna get cleaned up when this f'n hypocrite dog leaves the White House.

I've searched history for years and never found such from most pagan religions, certainly not mine..but you are correct, it's not about putting down Christianity but about the truth...historical facts! You can consider them or not, justify them or not, ignore them or not...but the historical evidence exists. I don't defend the evil of radical Islam or the abuses of Judiasm or any other faith, nor do I mention them to elevate witchcraft, I mention them because they are rooted in historical fact. Christianity is as good a path to the devine as any...but it has never been perfect, nor has it ever been the only path! Bush is everything you say, except he didn't invent hypocracy...it comes from an air of superiority...Bush is nothing more than a believer in the "one way" concept...and that makes him dangerous to those who follow other paths.

"waterboarding remains in the CIA's tool kit. The technique can be used, but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis. Bush wants to keep that option open."

So,what your saying is bullshit.They allow torture by waterboarding,but only if permission comes from hi levels.He wants the option to torture when he wants to torture.They allow waterboarding in the cia,but they need his permission.He wants the right to torture when he deems it necessary.A Christian shouldn't ever want the right to torture.He is hypocrite scum.A Methodist wants the right to torture somebody. That's a religious hypocrite. If he is signing off to torture people,then he is hardly acting Christian.All you people can get in line with the torture lover.That's not my country..that's yours.This should be a huge issue coming up in the election in November.We will see how far McCain is willing to go to distance himself from this thug activity.We are supposed to be a better country than this.That is a disgrace(to see a sitting president veto a bill outlawing torture.) We look low like dogs....base.

what part of 'waterboarding has been banned by both the military and cia' do you not understand? to say that a veto automatically = use of waterboarding is simplistic.

no, i put up what i read in the article about the use of waterboarding being banned. it didn't have in there about exceptions to the rule, so perhaps the article is bullshit.
i don't care if he's christian or not, i don't care what his feelings personally are on the subject. it's got nothing to do with that.

Danzig...the part where the bill bans it's use and Bush is vetoing it!

He ran on religious values.That's allowed.Now,he has done something totally against those values.He is a hypocrite,and so are other Christians that support torture.

The bill would have limited the CIA to 19 interrogation techniques that are used by the military and spelled out in the Army Field Manual. Bush said he vetoed the measure because it is important for the CIA to have a separate and classified interrogation program for suspected terrorists who possess critical information about possible plots against the United States.


Bush said he did not veto the bill specifically over waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The Army banned the use of waterboarding or sensory deprivation on uncooperative prisoners in 2006. The CIA, which also prohibited the practice in 2006, has acknowledged using waterboarding on three suspected terrorists in 2003.
"My disagreement ... is not over any particular interrogation technique; for instance, it is not over waterboarding, which is not part of the current CIA program," Bush said in his veto message to the House. The attorney general has deemed that program legal under domestic and international law, he said.

In a memo to CIA employees Saturday, CIA Director Michael Hayden said the Army Field Manual does not "exhaust the universe" of lawful interrogation techniques. "There are methods in the CIA's program that have been briefed to our oversight committees, are fully consistent with the Geneva Convention and current U.S. law and are most certainly not torture," Hayden wrote

and just for the record, i don't think we should be torturing anyone.

Unfortunately, taking the word of the Bush administration seems risky to me...I close my eyes and see all those WMD going poof before the eyes of the world...

it is.
but so is seeing all the headlines on my home page screaming 'waterboarding bill vetoed'. media does love to stoke hysteria.

i'm looking forward to the end of the bush circus...er, administration.

I think a lot of us are (hopefully a majority)...McCain getting Bush's support may be enough to put the Dems over the top...then again, nothing seems certain in blue vs red America.

Scuds, are you serious? First Christ didn't write anything in the bible. Various authors did. He is methodist, which means he believes in the trinity. All scripture is god-breathed and god-inspired. So Christ=God. While the god of the bible is a loving god. he is also a vengeful god. There are plenty of examples of his wrath.

Why would you discount the old testament and read only about christ, when the whole bible is about God=Christ?

[quote=skippy3481]Scuds, are you serious? First Christ didn't write anything in the bible. Various authors did. He is methodist, which means he believes in the trinity. All scripture is god-breathed and god-inspired. So Christ=God. While the god of the bible is a loving god. he is also a vengeful god. There are plenty of examples of his wrath.

Why would you discount the old testament and read only about christ, when the whole bible is about God=Christ?[/QUOT

For the most part,the Old Testament is written by old guys in the desert who said they were inspired.It's crap. Just guys talking ****,and of course it's gunna line up perfectly with people of present day that also are looking for something that agrees with their way of thinking.The people who are attracted to the OLD TESTAMENT are people looking to force people to be a certain way that they agree with.Hateful people wrote it,and hateful people are attracted to it.For instance,homosexuality is written about in the Old Testament,but Christ never talked about it.You would certainly think if it was so important,then he would have commented about it.Nope.The people who commented about it are people who hated homosexuals (for instance,a-hole Paul in the New Testament.) If you want a positive experience,then go by what Christ said.If you want to hate gays,and like to punish people then be like most of HEE HAW Nation,and put your head into the parts of the Bible that don't have Christ's words.If you choose to think of God as vengeful,then read the parts of the Bible written by guys like yourself.That's all they were.Just guys who said they were inspired.Could be most any Nascar Driver.Let him go into the desert with some wine and write about people he doesn't like,and voila...inspired word of God.It's called Christianity,but people much prefer to read the words of people other than Christ(because it fits a- holes thinking a lot better.) Wouldn't be a very popular religion if it didn't have the angry judgemental stuff.

and certainly christ recommended calling certain segments of the population things such as 'hee haw'.:rolleyes: or denigrate them simply because of what area of the country they live in.

No he didn't recommend dat,cuz they didn't have the show yet back then.He also didn't recommend grown people make gang sign-type movements with their fingers(while uttering the words "Hook em Horns.")Don't you think when one does such things,then they are pretty much auditioning to be on the new HEE HAW SHOW? Don't you think HEE HAW would be an accurate description?What about when grown people have fake pigheads on their heads,and say "suuu eeey" ? Is that not like dat Hee Haw show?

Jesus is a cool dude.If he was here widme,I would get him some cheetos and a Dr. Pepper.He would say "thank you my son," and I'd say "this is called HEE HAW Cuisine."He would say "it's quite salty,"and I'd say "Hee Haw like it dat way, pa." Then he'd say "can I meet this man called HAW." I would then let him know dat HEE HAW has been waiting to meet him for quite some time now.

My mom escaped from HEE HAW.My dad as well.He had da Yankee mama though.So,if it makes ya feel better,I am 3/4 HEE HAW by blood.I grew up with escaped Hee Haw relatives.My parents list a lot of places to retire at,but none of them are in the south.I tell them they could get a lot of house down there,and have a lot left over....They just look at me like I am taking a public dump.

You can claim what you want about who is doing what,but the fact remains that the following is 100% truth.Blame the press.Blame anybody you can ,but the statement is exactly what happened.After all your word games n' exercises it's still is going to be the truth.

President George W. Bush on Saturday vetoed legislation passed by Congress that would have banned the CIA from using waterboarding and other controversial interrogation techniques.



PERIOD.

AND TRUE ISLAM DOESNT BELIEVE IN IT ALSO..

THEY SUB THAT OUT TO BLACKWATER..:cool: