Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Charles Hatton Reading Room (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007 (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20438)

King Glorious 02-25-2008 03:59 PM

Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007
 
For anyone that wants to undergo such a task, I'd like to see what some of the lists would look like. If you want to take it a step further and rank them, even better. I'm assuming that there will be at least 10 that will be on every lists and that the remaining choices will cover a wide array of horses. Use whatever criteria you feel like using.

Travis Stone 02-25-2008 04:02 PM

1. War Pass
2. Pyro
3. Cool Coal Man
4. Denis of Cork

...

25. Smarty Jones

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 04:02 PM

This would be fun King. Even though it was a quick look this morning I went back and looked at every Derby chart from 1989 and it was pretty interesting. It's also interesting to go down memory land and see some of the horses that just seemed to disappear after the Derby and/or the other two triple crown races.

blackthroatedwind 02-25-2008 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
1. War Pass
2. Pyro
3. Cool Coal Man
4. Denis of Cork

...

93. Smarty Jones


FTFY.

Port Conway Lane 02-25-2008 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
For anyone that wants to undergo such a task, I'd like to see what some of the lists would look like. If you want to take it a step further and rank them, even better. I'm assuming that there will be at least 10 that will be on every lists and that the remaining choices will cover a wide array of horses. Use whatever criteria you feel like using.

Sunday Silence
Alysheba
Unbridled

KirisClown 02-25-2008 04:46 PM

1. Smarty Jones
2. Lawyer Ron
3. Lost In The Fog
4. Octave
5. Lawrence The Roman
6. Court Vision
7. Steppenwolfer
8. Jazil
9. Limehouse
10. Rags To Riches
11. Jamies First Punch
12. Deeds Not Words
13. Nationalore
14. Action This Day
15. Keyed Entry
16. Coin Silver
17. Brancusi
18. Ten Cents A Shine
19. Egg Head
20. Bull Inthe Heather
21. Wild Syn
22. El Bakan
23. Rockport Harbor
24. Bandini
25. Dr. Pleasure

blackthroatedwind 02-25-2008 04:51 PM

I laughed.

justindew 02-25-2008 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirisClown
1. Smarty Jones
2. Lawyer Ron
3. Lost In The Fog
4. Octave
5. Lawrence The Roman
6. Court Vision
7. Steppenwolfer
8. Jazil
9. Limehouse
10. Rags To Riches
11. Jamies First Punch
12. Deeds Not Words
13. Nationalore
14. Action This Day
15. Keyed Entry
16. Coin Silver
17. Brancusi
18. Ten Cents A Shine
19. Egg Head
20. Bull Inthe Heather
21. Wild Syn
22. El Bakan
23. Rockport Harbor
24. Bandini
25. Dr. Pleasure

No Suave Prospect?

King Glorious 02-25-2008 04:58 PM

Well, it was worth a try.

miraja2 02-25-2008 05:03 PM

1) Sunday Silence





































































24 others that weren't nearly as good.

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 05:03 PM

I give him credit for trying, but Egghead?

miraja2 02-25-2008 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

I wasn't sure if he was kidding or not until I saw that Song of the Sword wasn't even on the list.
Then I knew for sure that he was just joking around.

kentuckyrosesinmay 02-25-2008 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirisClown
1. Smarty Jones
2. Lawyer Ron
3. Lost In The Fog
4. Octave
5. Lawrence The Roman
6. Court Vision
7. Steppenwolfer
8. Jazil
9. Limehouse
10. Rags To Riches
11. Jamies First Punch
12. Deeds Not Words
13. Nationalore
14. Action This Day
15. Keyed Entry
16. Coin Silver
17. Brancusi
18. Ten Cents A Shine
19. Egg Head
20. Bull Inthe Heather
21. Wild Syn
22. El Bakan
23. Rockport Harbor
24. Bandini
25. Dr. Pleasure

No Giacomo?

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

Gotcha, now that I look at the rest of the list. I'm a mess.

Port Conway Lane 02-25-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
Well, it was worth a try.

I was going to put Sarava, Giacomo and Commendable after the obvious three but everyone else took care of the levity.

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 05:27 PM

In no particular order and I'm sure I'll be leaving someone out.

Alysheba
Winning Colors
Risen Star
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Holy Bull
Thunder Gulch
Mecke
Silver Charm
Lemon Drop Kid
War Emblem
Smarty Jones
Afleet Alex
Street Sense
Curlin


These are just a few I would consider to be very good 3 year olds.

blackthroatedwind 02-25-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Tepid on the Bull? How come? I know you said no order but IMO he would have crushed at least the horses under him on that list and maybe 2 above him.


He was no Mecke.

miraja2 02-25-2008 05:36 PM

I might be forgetting someone, but here is my list of 25 in the order I thought of them. It isn't exactly ranked 1-25, but my top picks are near the top of the list.

Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Go for Wand
Holy Bull
Risen Star
Alysheba
Barbaro
Point Given
AP Indy
Thunder Gulch
Unbridled
Curlin
Smarty Jones
Silver Charm
Tiznow
Afleet Alex
Housebuster
Bet Twice
Winning Colors
Victory Gallop
Tabasco Cat
Touch Gold
Real Quiet
Bernardini
Empire Maker

KirisClown 02-25-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Tepid on the Bull? How come? I know you said no order but IMO he would have crushed at least the horses under him on that list and maybe 2 above him.


Im hoping & praying it's a typo..

"very tepid" belongs next to War Emblem..

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan
In no particular order and I'm sure I'll be leaving someone out.

Alysheba
Winning Colors
Risen Star
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Holy Bull
Thunder Gulch
Mecke
Silver Charm
Lemon Drop Kid
War Emblem
Smarty Jones
Afleet Alex
Street Sense
Curlin


These are just a few I would consider to be very good 3 year olds.



Removed Tepid.

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirisClown
Im hoping & praying it's a typo..

"very tepid" belongs next to War Emblem..


You are more than likely right about that, I just couldn't leave him off my short list.

fpsoxfan 02-25-2008 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
No need to. It was your opinion, I was just curious why you thought that.

In all honesty, I hated his Derby performance and I thought I was going to get my balls busted over him. But now I think it's going to be my choice of Mecke that will fill that void. :)

kentuckyrosesinmay 02-25-2008 06:04 PM

No particular order

Deep Impact
George Washington
Miesque
Curlin
Afleet Alex
Lost in the Fog
Barbaro
Rock of Gibralter
Point Given
Smarty Jones
Bernardini
Silver Charm
Unbridled
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Holy Bull
Ouija Board
Lammtarra
Alysheba
Risen Star
Winning Colors
Rags to Riches
AP Indy
Go For Wand
High Chaparral

King Glorious 02-25-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
I might be forgetting someone, but here is my list of 25 in the order I thought of them. It isn't exactly ranked 1-25, but my top picks are near the top of the list.

Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Go for Wand
Holy Bull
Risen Star
Alysheba
Barbaro
Point Given
AP Indy
Thunder Gulch
Unbridled
Curlin
Smarty Jones
Silver Charm
Tiznow
Afleet Alex
Housebuster
Bet Twice
Winning Colors
Victory Gallop
Tabasco Cat
Touch Gold
Real Quiet
Bernardini
Empire Maker

Interesting that you have Real Quiet and Victory Gallop but no Coronado's Quest.

miraja2 02-25-2008 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
Interesting that you have Real Quiet and Victory Gallop but no Coronado's Quest.

That's true....I forgot about him.
He bested VG in the late summer/early fall so you could certainly make a case for him.

miraja2 02-25-2008 06:25 PM

kentuckyrosesinmay,
LITF > Thunder Gulch?
You'll have to explain that one to me, but other than that, your list looks fairly reasonable. I didn't include international horses simply because I don't feel qualified to compare horses like Deep Impact and Ouija Board with U.S dirt horses.

kentuckyrosesinmay 02-25-2008 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
kentuckyrosesinmay,
LITF > Thunder Gulch?
You'll have to explain that one to me, but other than that, your list looks fairly reasonable. I didn't include international horses simply because I don't feel qualified to compare horses like Deep Impact and Ouija Board with U.S dirt horses.

I forgot about Thunder Gulch. Should have put him in there somewhere, and knocked someone else out.

As for the international horses, I just put them in there because they were brillant in their respected divisions as three-year-olds (and they were a few of my favs on top of it all). Besides, it is just for fun anyway.

King Glorious 02-25-2008 07:14 PM

Only considering U.S. dirt horses and in no order:

Alysheba
Risen Star
Sunday Silence
AP Indy
Holy Bull
Thunder Gulch
Point Given
Smarty Jones
Bernardini
Curlin
Lion Heart
Fusaichi Pegasus
Easy Goer
Winning Colors
Forty Niner
Seeking the Gold
Bet Twice
Java Gold
King Glorious
Touch Gold
Dinard
Serena's Song
Go for Wand
Lost Code
Coronado's Quest

Most notable absences are Tiznow, Silver Charm, and Real Quiet. I have always felt that Silver Charm was just a little overrated. Very good horse but I felt he was a lucky winner of the Preakness and it should have been Touch Gold that was the dual-classic winner that year and if that would have been the case, I think SC would be left off a lot more people's lists. If Silver Charm goes on, you almost have to put Free House and Captain Bodgit on too. I sort of feel like in 1997 and 1998, they had several really good horses but that they were very much like 2007 in that they were good and very competitive but no real superstars and so I only took the one I thought was the best one from each of these three years. Real Quiet got really good for the TC but those were his only two wins of the year and really, if you want to put him on there, Coronado's Quest also has to be on there since he beat Victory Gallop twice too (Haskell and Travers) in addition to wins in the Wood, Dwyer, and to show he could sprint too, the Riva Ridge. Tiznow just doesn't make it for me. He ran a great race to win the BC but that was over a grass horse. The rest of his campaign doesn't put him on the list for me.

I think the three that most will question on my lists are King Glorious, Dinard, and Lion Heart. I admit that Lion Heart is a stretch. I just thought he was more naturally talented than many people give him credit for. I wish he hadn't broken his leg in the Travers. I thought for sure with the way that race was unfolding that he was going to win it then not as many people would be questioning me putting him on here. Many people don't remember Dinard but he was better than Best Pal. He had beaten Best Pal in the San Rafael and the SA Derby and would have been the favorite for the 1991 Kentucky Derby but an injury took him out. Best Pal ended up a very close second that year. He also beat Olympio in that SA Derby and Olympio won the Arkansas Derby and the Malibu that year. King Glorious was just the best horse that's run in the past 20 years so I don't need to make his case for him.

One horse that was a tougher choice for me than probably for most was Risen Star. Just how good was he? I know a lot of people thought that he could have won the Derby with a better trip but on the flip side, was he really the best horse in the Preakness when he got a perfect trip? The Belmont was a tour de force for him but that's often a race where only one horse is ready to run and it's often a runaway and not indicative of the actual talent levels of the horses. EG was not really eight lengths better than SS. Bet Twice is not over 15 lengths better than Alysheba. It's a good thing Risen Star beat Forty Niner in the Lexington or else I'm not sure he makes it.

miraja2 02-25-2008 07:21 PM

Lion Heart?
He only won two races his 3yo season and the second place finisher in each of those races was My Snookie's Boy.
To each his own I suppose, but putting him in over Silver Charm sure seems like a stretch to me.

King Glorious 02-25-2008 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
Lion Heart?
He only won two races his 3yo season and the second place finisher in each of those races was My Snookie's Boy.
To each his own I suppose, but putting him in over Silver Charm sure seems like a stretch to me.

It's more than a stretch. That one was more a heart and belief pick than based on anything factual.

TheSpyder 02-25-2008 08:02 PM

rumbo!!!

The Bid 02-25-2008 08:31 PM

Without LITF the lists are incomplete and cannot be taken serious.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.