Hollywood Park is History today
 

On Monday they start to dig up the dirt and install Polytrack.

Cushiontrack. Last dirt race is today's 8th.

They really don't even need Polytrack at Hollywood. The track is pretty good there. The place they really need it is at Santa Anita. The track is terrible there. They've been having a lot of problems there. The track is so bad there and so many horses have been getting hurt, that they are going to close it for 2 weeks and do a bunch of tests to try to figure out what is wrong. They're going to check the base to see if there's a problem with the base. They think there could be holes in the base and that is what is causing the problems. I wish they'd put the polytrack at Santa Anita right now. They should leave Hollywood alone.

Polytrack is a brand name. Not all copy machines are made by Xerox. Not all tissues are made by Kleenex. Not all sugary carbonated drinks are made by Coke. Not all artificial racing surfaces are made by Polytrack.

Hollywood Park is installing a new surface. Call it an artificial surface. Call if by it's brand name which is Cushiontrack. Call it Bob for all I care.

It isn't Polytrack.

I'll call it "I'll never bet a damn dime on it Track" . This $hit will be the start of the end of horse racing and the breeding sheds mark my words.

Consider them marked.

I hate the stuff too. Why is Hollywood Park going to the surface? If they are looking to prevent further breakdowns, they are going about it in the wrong way. It's most likely not the surface...

It's the law! The California horse racing board pass a ruling that if you want racing dates in this state you will have a approved artificial surface installed by 2008.

Once Hollywood Park was sold by Churchill to Bay Meadows Development Corporation there were serious questions about how committed the new owners were to racing.

Racing dates are not owned by the tracks. They are assigned by the state. Hollywood Park's dates are desired by Magna (who owns Santa Anita), the Los Angeles County Racing Association (who runs the Fairplex meet at Pomona and wants to expand that track if HP closes), and a private group that wants to expand Los Alimito's racetrack south of Los Angeles to accomadate more t-bred racing (also if HP closes).

The current owners of HP saw that the state would likely mandate synthetic surfaces. They were the first in line for a synthetic surface because they could see the writing on the wall. Unless they wanted to risk losing racing dates to a potential competitor, they would need to show their committment to racing by installing the synthetic surface.

The good news (at least if you want to see racing continue at HP) is that Bay Meadows Developement is commited enough to continued racing to make the investment.

It is also an effort to get owners across the nation to ship and race in California. The purse money is already here and now the notion of we don't want to race on those hard tracks in California is a thing of the past. Dislike California all you want , but the fact is you are seeing the future of horse racing. Artificial racing surfaces are here.

So there is not going to be anymore breeding in the horse industry?

No I'm saying noone will pay top dollar for a horse unproven on this $hit over time. Half of the tracks will be Poly and the other half will be dirt. Give a dirt track over the others anysay of the week. We've been over this a 1,000 times. What ever floats your boat people. I just know that people who bet lots ans lots of cash hate this $hit. Now you'll be getting less bang for your buck and so will the track. If Turway wans't so damn lazy and actually took care of the track they'd have less breakdowns IMOP. I'll just keep betting tracks who have a good track like Lone Star, Belmont, Churchill, Gulfstream, Oaklawn and Toga. The hell with the rest of them with that Poly Bull****. Patrick B had a nice 2yearold training over the Turfway track turning bullet after bullet on the Poly runs up the track so far at Churchill it isn't even funny. just like Lawyer Ron ran up the track at Turfway others will follow.

It is the future of horse racing and we'll just have to deal with it. It may not be the ultimate solution to horse health but it's in the right direction, imo.

This stuff will have the opposite effect, Frankel can't get out of there quick enough and head to New York. Owners that pay all of that money for that horse flesh, only to watch the horse spin their wheels in it, will ship out of town and you'll probably see some of the bigger trainers like Baffert follow Frankel's path East. It may actually have a positive effect, California Racing is god awful, so if their best horses ship East, it'll make for a better overall racing product, which is fine with me. California is such a messed up state, I can't believe they actually passed a law to make this stuff mandatory, I would really trust the California politicians to know what's best for the racing industry, they seem to screw everything else up....

Ya, but the weathers great. The only thing we don't have is one of ya'lls FEMA express offices.

See I view it as a great handicapping test. The prices at Turfway were awesome this past meet. A good handicapper will be able to view figures and past performances from PolyTrack and dirt to their favor. Saying you arent going to wager on PolyTrack Tracks shows me that you are unwilling to take the time to learn how to handicap this surface. I think it is easy and had a successful time handicapping Turfway. Also, it helped me score HUGE on Lemons Forever in the Oaks. You also have to remember that Lawyer Ron didnt fair so well when he went to Keeneland and Churchill. I honestly think Lawyer Ron is an overrated horse (but I would like to own him). Take this as a challenge as a handicapper. If you can figure out an angle, then you can pad your pockets.

Kycher,

Lawyer Ron won at Keeneland, how can you say he didn't fair well and also, he ran at turf at Churchill, not his preferred surface. There's no rhyme or reason to poly track, the numbers and figures are all over the place, it's pure garbage and the racing in Kentucky sucks...

Show me the race Lawyer Ron won at Keeneland. Lawyer Ron raced in a Maiden Allowance race on 10/21/05 and finished 3rd. I dont think he ever won a race at Keeneland. Lawyer Ron started on turf at Ellis and he didnt fair well at all on Turf. He lone "dirt" race in Kentucky is the one I mentioned above.

There is a pattern to Turfway. It is just hard to find it.

A maiden allowance race? wtf is that?

He won in the slop at Keeneland, beat He's a Slow Salt...

He was undefeated on dirt, until the Kentucky Derby...

Here is the chart for Lawyer Ron's maiden win at Keeneland...

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2006/de.../chart_msw.pdf

This is the most underrated horse in the U.S. right now because everyone says he is overrated. How many times did he beat Steppenwolfer? How many? Three. What happened to Lawyer Ron in the Derby? He finished 12th. Logic would say that something had to have happened to him since that "slow" horse coming out of OP Steppenwolfer finished third and LR finished a distant 12th because LR is a much better horse than Steppenwolfer. Gee, could it be that Holthus had been running the horse into the ground with a chip in which he had surgery on immediately after the Derby? I wonder...:rolleyes:

It is MSW otherwise known as a Maiden Allowance. Show me the race where Lawyer Ron won a race at Keeneland. Here is his pp's.

04.15.06 Arkansas Derby (GII) 1st Chart Recap Video Pulled rider to lead; coasted home
03.18.06 Rebel (GIII) 1st Chart Recap Video Showed added versatility closing from fifth
02.25.06 Southwest 1st Chart Recap Video Controlled pace, held Steppenwolfer safe
01.14.06 Risen Star (GIII) 1st Chart Recap Video Powerhouse win; middle of the track
12.31.05 Diamond Jo Stakes @ Evangeline Downs 1st Chart Video Dusted overmatched foes
12.09.05 Allowance @ Louisiana Downs 1st Chart Drew away to 10 3/4 length win
11.20.05 Grand Canyon @ Churchill Downs 4th Even effort on the turf
11.05.05 Turf allowance @ Churchill Downs 3rd
10.21.05 Maiden allowance @ Keeneland 3rd Chart
10.05.05 Maiden allowance @ Turfway 5th
09.14.05 Maiden claiming @ Turfway 2nd
08.25.05 Maiden turf allowance @ Ellis Park 7th
08.05.05 Maiden turf allowance @ Ellis Park 3rd
07.24.05 Maiden turf allowance @ Ellis Park 3rd

You can count me out of playing Hollywood other than grass races in the fall. This stuff is going to have a bad effect on handle eventually. Its completely unformful in relation to dirt racing. WHose gonna risk running high priced stuff on that surface very long? You can bet your butt that once they start running on it, the owners who have horses who dont fire on it will be shipping their horses out of there faster than you can say dirt.

Well I am sorry. Guess KYDerby.com was wrong. Sorry Point and everyone else.

What I think it going to happen is that trainers will train their horses on the stuff. Maybe run them on the stuff when they come back from an injury, or maybe to get the horse some experience. A great angle to play is going to be a first time starter on Poly and doesnt do well. Then the trainer moves the horse to dirt. Also the same can be applied to horses off a layoff.

Lemons Forever and lawyer Ron despised it. Oh and how did the winners on Ky Cup day do afterwards? They all went absolutely nowhere.
Ny is acting very prudently with its wait and see attitude. My guess? My guess is that tracks on the East Coast will get an even bigger kick after so many horses out west start running poorly on polytrack and trainers and owners start bitching about a lack of form. Gulfstream will boom even more, and Ny will as well.
Its just not a dirt replacement, thats the problem. We don't have horses who are bred for polytrack and making speed figures on it is very hard, which means big players will say no thanks.
Lets face it, this is all about money. The three-four companies who market this stuff aren't at all concerned with horse health, they are concerned with getting contracts and cash. Trainers out west will soon find training a completely different way to be very hard and against everything they learned their whole lives, hard to start fresh after 20-30 years of doing something the same way. Its a specialists surface, and as soon as owners think they don't have a specialist, they will send those horses East to run on dirt. I'd love to own the shipping companies in California come winter/springtime, the flights will be overbooked nonstop.

Well Lemons finished 3rd on the stuff. I think Lemons is a bad example because that horse is a one race wonder. Lawyer Ron is a good example. But Poly isnt marketed as a dirt replacement. It is marketed to keep the horses sound and to save the track $$$.

Yeah it'll save them money on track maintenance but offer less money wagered over all so where is the make and break point? I won't bet that $hit plain and simple. I'm a Turf man myself and looks like I'll have to be one for a while yet. Hey to each his own. If you can make so much money of this stuff why don't you drop some winners on us when Turfway opens back up for business. It's not that I can't handicap this stuff it's like O said they're all over the place on this stuff. Hardly any hosres held form at Turfway this winter. I'm with O on this being a blessing in that my other favorite tracks on the East coast will get fat with horses by the end of the 2008 spring meet.

It is no big deal to me that horses didnt hold form at Turfway this year. I could care less what horses that raced at Turfway did at other tracks. You cant use that as an indicator. Turfway winter meet was a great learning experience for handicappers and I think people will wager on it. Bettors are bettors and once they grasp the handicapping angles, they will wager. Now a horse that I can't get a grasp on is High Cotton. The horse did ok at Turfway and is doing OK on dirt. But I am sort of confused by that horse.

The east coast tracks that will flouirsh (if any at all) will be either Mountaineer or PA tracks. I cant see too many trainers from Ohio, Kentucky or Indiana shipping their horse to New York.
But when Turfway opens this fall, I will give out some picks and hopefully they will come in for us.

Not arguing whether it's good for Hollywood or not (actually fear the day the Ky Derby is ran on artificial surface) but just adding on to the handicapping points made earlier. If you do take time (a ton of time) then it can be a great handicapping advantage. Horses that ran once on the surface, or at least had a couple of workouts on it, often improve drastically the second time out. Another useful angle is how their form transfers to different tracks. This last spring, horses shipping from Turfway either did extremely well or poorly at specific tracks. I get the two confused, but I believe horses coming off Polytrack races won at around 25-30% at Keeneland, but started like 0-60 at Oaklawn (might have switched Keeneland and Oaklawn).

High Cotton won a stakes on it and since has won dirt stakes.