HUGE Cavs trade
 

But ah ain't sayin who.



:)

Hughes, Gooden to da bulls for Ben Wallace and Nerdziac.

Horrible trade.

The Bulls actually found someone to take Wallace?

Yeah. They should have a parade for pulling that off.

they didn't need anyone in return

This is a great trade for the Cavs. They get some toughness on the inside with the addition of Wallace and a above average 3 point shooter with Wally. Now they have Gibson and Wally on the perimeter. This leaves James with a wide open lane. Iggy will still get his and Wallace gives them a rebounding and defensive force. They dont loose much in Hughes--12.3 and 3.6 per game and Gooden 11.3 and 8.3. This puts the Cavs right up there behind the Celtics and Pistons. Good good good trade for the Cavs.

Fools.


The overall flavor will be devastating to this pop stand Eastern Conf.

Well we arent compaing the Eastern Conference to the Western Conference. Most people know the Western Conference is head and shoulders above the East. I believe that Phoenix is 21-2 against the Eastern Conference this year. The big stat is the Lakers are 20-8 against the West and 17-9 against the East.

The trade on paper makes the Cavs a better team. Getting rid of Hughes was huge as he is not a shooter but a scorer who needs the ball in his hands a lot. Obviously that cant happen with Cleveland. Replacing him with Wally and West is a positiive as they are both better shooters than Hughes and West is probably better at running the point though he is hardly Jason Kidd. I think a team with Ben Wallace, Ilgaugas, Varejo and Joe Smith is an improvement on what they had especially as Smith and Gooden are close to interchangable and Smith is a more versitile offensive player. Smith and Wallace combined are much better than Gooden. Wally is far from a great player but is a good compliment to LeBron who will take pressure of him which is what he needs. he can hit open jumpers, he just needs someone to get him open. Losing Marshall is not a factor and the other guys were just bench players. They still may not be good enough to Beat Boston but they are a better team.

The Bulls are like a rudderless ship. This deal makes no sense. I understand getting rid of Wallace's contract but they brought back close to the same contract with a player (Hughes) that they already have a better version of (Gordon) who has an expiring contract. Gooden for Smith is not an improvement. They didnt dump salary or get picks or get players that fit their team.


Seattle dumped a big contract

I just get back from class and I hear about this trade. They should fire Paxson now. Larry Hughes is Ben Gordon but a couple years older.

I agree 100%, the Cavs are better with this trade...still appear behind Boston and Detroit but this gives them a chance come playoff time...if Wallace decides he wants to play again (and is healthy), they could surprise...until they meet the Celtics.

Cavs may not lose for the rest of the year.

I wish Mortimer still posted so he could clear me up on this. As a Cav fan I dont' like the trade. I always considered their supporting cast "average" as Mortimer remembers which in my mind is an actual compliment...that's pretty much all they needed supporting LeBron. What was their strength of their Eastern Conference championship year was defense...and Hughes was actually by far their best perimeter defender. Despite his lack of shooting ability, since Jan 1st he was shooting over 40 percent and scoring over 15 a game. He was indeed their second scoring option since the start of 2008 year. with gibson now out 6 weeks (they are very adept at spraining ankles this year!!), I am guessing WEst picks up most of those minutes with both Gibson and Hughes gone. Hughes was a 38 percent shooter, West is a 39 percent shooter this year. West is not a good player or he would have played more for an abomination of a Seattle team.

Wallace is an old and declining player. I dont' see where he helps the team any more than Gooden...the defense and rebounding he provides the team already had with Varejao (who hasn't been playing because of his sprined ankle.)...when Varejao comes back he is pretty much Wallace but with a better offensive game (as hard as that is for me to say for Anderson having a better O game than anyone.) and plays the same defnese without blocking the shots Ben does. Ben is a null set offensively.

Sczerbiak couldn't guard me one on one. He shoots outside shots well, but he can't defend which is suposedly the staple of the team.

I think their perimeter defense is worse now by quite a bit. They perhaps improved their post defense a little bit. They were already a good rebounding team..though Wallace improves that, I don't see how much more they can really improve...it wasn't a weakness to begin with.

The main goal of trading Hughes was to get rid of his contract...not pick up one that is much worse...Ben Wallace. I hope I'm wrong....but I'm not seeing how this trade really helps them that much. I need Mortimer to explain it to me...not that Every Bartman guy.

Well there he goes again....isolating on the few good streaks Hughes had here. Hughes was typically 3 for 12.....with not much else. Unbelievable---one time he is a part of a lousy supporting cast,but now that he's traded he's a guy we couldn't afford to lose.

One thing this team has lacked fer DEM SHOO is toughness....meaness....dirty ,filthy, savage play. Wallace will give them that and should be revived going to a good team. Smith is far from a slouch and isn't exactly 47.Wally gives them that outside shooter they so desperately need now with Gibson down.

I was only sorry to see Gooden and Newble go,but this is a trade for now.I think they doubted their chances of getting back to the finals with all the injuries.They still need the pg,but I think they did improve the team for the playoffs this year....definitely the big man play gets even better and they're not hurt in the backcourt with this.

thanks...you're almost as good as Mortimer. Not quite however. Hughes was not a star, but did some things well. I do think they're hurt a bit in the backcourt however. I've just never been a big Wallace fan, don't know if it's cause he played for Detroit and Chicago or not. On the bright side, I am usually wrong as Mortimer would attest so perhaps my opinions on this are a good sign for the team. (ps..."lousy' and "average" are not interchangeable!)

You'll get there .











Someday.











I don't know how.
































Oh give it time.



























And PAH-LENTY of it.

Isn't this exactly where they were without making this deal? I don't get this trade at all. Ben Wallace is extremely overrated in my opinion. Wally Z can't play a lick of defense. Delonte West has gone way down since his Boston days. He couldn't even beat out Earl Watson for a starting spot. The question that I think they have to ask themselves is does this make them the best team in the East? I don't think the answer is yes. The interesting thing is that this year, they were the same Cavs that had beaten Detroit last year and were 2-1 against the Celtics this year. I would have liked a healthy Cavs team's chances against Detroit again this year and they have matched up very well with the Celtics. I don't think major moves like this were the right thing for them and getting Wallace's contract is going to hurt.

:rolleyes:

The trade was worth it simply for the opportunity to watch them suit up tonight with Kaniel Dickens, Billy Thomas, Dwayne Jones, Damon Jones, Eric Snow, Devin Brown, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and LeBron James.

Ben Wallace is overrated in what facet of the game? Defense or rebounding? Who thinks he can do more than that? With a 4 man rotation of him, Ilgaugaskas, Anderson V and Smith, he wont have to play big minutes and can go hard all the time. Wally Z is there strictly as a shooter which is something they needed. Delonte played himself into the dog house in Seattle but can play point and is a good 3 point shooter with a small contract that was basically a throw in. Everybody is forgetting Joe Smith. He is a big man that can score and is a better all around player than Gooden. Are you guys forgetting that they beat Detroit pretty much without Hughes? Are you forgetting that Hughes contract is just as outrageous as Wallaces except Wallace fits his role better than Hughes did in his? Just because they went to the Finals last year doesnt mean they didnt need to adjust. They were screwed by the cap before the trade and now they are screwed still but have better players with defined roles. I dont know how that makes this a bad deal for Cleveland. What I dont understand is Chicago's thinking.

Oh save it..ya just can't talk to some of these people.

As a Bull fan, I think Paxson is a genius for getting rid of that bum Wallace. He is awful, lazy and very overpaid. His attitude is cavalier at best (couldn't resist that one). Wallace clearly had become a derisive influence in the locker room. Getting Larry Hughes and Gooden in return is a lot more than I expected to get for that stiff.

You probably love what Isiah is doing with the Knicks too. I am amazed that there are people that think this was a good move for Chicago. Remember that genius was the one who signed him for 30% more than anyone else was offering. Though the they did get rid of a big contract the trade was Isiahish in that they traded one bad contract for another, downgraded at one position and added a player at another position they didnt need. I suppose if Gordon walks and Hughes takes his spot then you could say they downgraded at two positions, didnt free up cap space and also gave a away a draft pick. Call me crazy but I find it hard to believe getting rid of Wallace was worth all the other negatives. Of course maybe he is trying to lose more games to get a better lottery position for the new GM.

Well..the edit was interesting at least

I'm not sure what you posted when the Bulls signed Wallace, but at the time I don't think there were many doing much else other than calling Paxson a genius. Considering where they were as a team at that point, where they were drafting and what they needed...it seemed like an inspired and agressive move. In hindsight, I think it was more that the rest of the team didn't end up where they should have been vs Wallace not getting them there. Either way, I don't know how you could have watched the Bulls in the last 12 months and said that getting rid of WAllace was a detriment.

I really think that at worse, the trade was a wash for the Bulls, but not the travesty that you make it out to be.

I'm not sure that is such a bad thing either anymore, although I guess someone has to score for them..

Well coming from a noted NBA follower such as yourself I would find it interesting that you and the other Bulls fans choose to ignore the fact that no one was bidding for Wallace especially for 4 years at that price. Detroit was offering much less and simply let him walk which essentially killed their chances to win the title. The Bulls issues run far greater than Ben Wallace and that contract that all Bulls fans seem to resent. The fact that Deng is sleepwalking or hurt or both due to his contract or trade rumors. That Gordon resents not being signed. That Heinrich looks like he aged 20 years during the off season. That they have no inside scoring to speak of because they draft athletic guys that lack basketball knowledge or skills like thomas and Noah. That Nocionni is the only consistent guy they have and he is a zero on defense?

Since you dont watch much NBA let me give you a quickover view of what you got. For 14 mill a year a sullen, no dimensional guard that shoots poorly, is average at all other phases of the game and was so valuble to Cleveland that they accomplished most of their improbable playoff run without him. Gooden rebounds pretty good and can hit an open 10 foot baseline shot but give you little else. he is really not much different than Thomas or Noah, just has a funny looking beard.

Since you seem to feel that I am somehow picking on the Bulls let me post what Bill Simmons wrote about it on ESPN.com


On the flip side, the John Paxson era is starting to resemble the Britney Spears era -- tons of promise, tons of hype, a startling turn and now he's one more bad move away from chain-smoking in a hospital gown while speaking with a British accent. If you had told a Bulls fans two years ago that everything (and by "everything," I'm referring to a five-year odyssey spent stockpiling lottery picks and creating cap space) was leading toward a 2008 deadline deal that netted them Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, they would have punched you in the face and then they would have punched you in the face again. But that's where we are. All things considered, the Wallace contract was the single most damaging front-office decision of this decade that didn't involve Chris Wallace.

Well...they didn't need the players they traded nor the ones the got in return tonight. 8 guys...2 fresh out of the minors.




This is a very strange team.

Washington is in a coma. That was ugly. There were times when the Cavs had 2 guys on the court who had ANY chance of making a basket and still they got open or they didnt double Lebron. That ship be sinking

I was proud of Eric Snow for scoring and not collapsing from exhaustion. Tonight he was worth every bit of that 8 mill.

OK.....that's enough out of you sir.

lol...had a feeling that was coming

So how is Deng going weird, Heinrich aging and Gordon wanting Shaq money Paxon's fault? I really don't want to sit here and defend him ad nauseaum, but if you can honestly tell me that 2 years ago you didn't think they were ready to go big time, I would be surprised.

Bull's fans don't resent Wallace's contract. They resent that from the day he joined that team, they never progressed the way they should have. You seem to think it's the GMs fault ( comparing him to Isaah), but I think there are plenty of places to look

I admit I was stunned the Bulls were as good as they were last year and surprised at how bad they have been this year. It is Paxtons fault that he signed Wallace and botched the Kobe to the Bulls drama so that half the team was waiting for the hammer to drop. The contract disputes with Deng and Gordon may not be his fault per se but he didnt do anything to ease the pain.

I thought the Bulls progressed amazingly well last year with Wallace. The GM has not put together a team that is very good as of today or a situation where they can get much better in the near future. The coach already got axed. Now Wallace. Next stop Jimmy P's.

The truth is after getting MJ for all those years Bull fans deserve a dose of Hughes to even out the karma. He is like Quinten Dailey without the sexually assaults....except Dailey was a better shooter.

Perhaps Coach Pants should take over.







:rolleyes:

The only reason I would love what Isiah is doing to the Knicks is that I don't like the Knicks. Getting rid of a clubhouse cancer is what Paxson did; Isiah seems to love to acquire them. If the Bulls would've outright cut Wallace, it would be addition by subtraction. Forget what Wallace was 3 of 4 years ago.....he's clearly not the same player and a big distraction off the court.

I have no problems with them getting rid of Wallace but what they got in return. Hughes is black hole and Gooden is not what they need. Plus gave up a draft pick even if it is a second rounder it reduces their flexability in future deals. If they cut him and ate the contract that would have been a better move than having to eat Hughes and Gooden for 2 years. They would have been better off trading him to a team for the rights of some euro player that may never even show up. Of course there is no reason to believe that anybody else except a team like Cleveland would take a shot on him. It is like Bill Simmons was saying, they spent 5 years dumping salaries and positioning themselves with draft picks and cap space and have wound up with a dysfunctional (and bad) team to show for it. There is just no evidence that Paxton has a workable plan for this team, just like Isiah.

You have to give them huge credit for that win. The Buzzards record was not that much below .500.......quite remarkable.

I'd send you to the d league.

^^^ This from the guy who asked God to send a lightning bolt out with his name on it.