Johan...
 

Just another example of how my beloved franchise doesn't give a **** about winning... I'm hoping just one of these pitching prospects in 5 years turns out to be the next Brad Radke... guh.

I knew this day was coming, and as a Twins fan, all rumored offers for him fell short in my book. I MEAN THIS IS FRIGGIN' JOHAN SANTANA! Probably the best pitcher in baseball (Peavy and Bedard are gonna make that debatable starting this year)!!! A once every decade kind of arm... And we get a bunch of b-list prospects fro him. The only thing that gives me the benefit of the doubt on this one, is the Twins dump ever year and still stay competitive. But they never take that next step forward, because they dump their main guys.

I'd just like to say to Torii (Hunter) and Johan- Thanks for the memories, and sorry that our owner is the cheapest bastard on the planet. When that new stadium opens in 2010, I'm glad we'll have Mauer, Morneau, and Cuddyer taking the field, but our opening day ace shouldn't be Boof Bonser, IT SHOULD BE JOHAN SANTANA.

Sorry for the rant guys. How does it feel to be a Yankees, Sox, or Mets fan, in when you guys have big name players, that actually pay to retain them (or acquire them in this case)? It's a pleasant thought. Today is a day that makes me respect Steinbrenner a lot more...

the twins got hosed on this deal.

they should have not been playing games with the yanks and sox. they had thier opp and blew it.

now its a wash in the al east, i think both the yanks and sox are satisfied neither team got him and hes out of the al all together.

that being said we have to deal with him in the nl.

big trade for the mets who where looking like the wernt going to pull the trigger on anything, but now look very good.

only thing is i would hate to pay that new contract next year but hey its the mets they have the cash.

I don't think the contract is that big of an issue. He's basically going to get what Barry Zito got on the open market which the Mets were prepared to pay but not for Zito. So the Mets traded one good OF prospect who needs to learn plate discipline (which wasn't going to be possible with the Mets next year), a 25yo pitcher who has already had Tommy John surgery, and two other pitching prospects that likely would have never made the rotation with Santana, Maine, Perez, and Pelfrey likely around for a while. In exchange they upgraded from Barry Zito to Johan Santana for about the same money. I'm just shocked they pulled this off without any of Reyes, Pelfrey, Heilman, or Fernando Martinez involved.

i don't think the contract is a issue with the mets either, like i said they got the cash.

i'm surprised they pulled it off also,get to keep there top pitching prospect and offensive prospect and unload a couple back of the rotation pitchers at best for a huge push to being the team to beat in the nl.

the twins have to be kicking themselves in the ass. i would have pulled the trigger with the yanks when the offer was on the table.

It's all relative, the Mets do try and keep a payroll cap of $120 million unlike the Yanks and Sox who will spend whatever it takes. So while the Mets have far more money to spend than 3/4 of the team in baseball they do still have a soft cap they are working with so in that sense it does matter.

I have a feeling the Yanks would have put that offer back on the table if the Twins were willing to take it. They just wanted Santana out of the league.

well i think in a postion to get one of the best if not the best, rest assured they would have gone over that soft cap.

there are exceptions to the rule and when a pitcher like this is in front of you i think they would even go above there self imposed cap

i don't think it was santana out of the league, thats the least of the twins worries. you worry about that if your a contender. they have enuff problems just trying to be even remotly competitive in thier own division,let alone worry about what he can do to them

i think the soxand yanks had enuff time to think about it and realised the talent they had was good enuff and not really where that intrested upon reflection of it.

and i also believe that they both had a feel that neither one after giving it some thought were going to go for it and were both satisfied of niether having him.

i think the yanks said screw it and the sox said if the yanks look like they are going to stay out of it so will we.

I feel your pain and agree, but thank god he's out of the Central

1 prediction for if and when Johan gets this huge extension worked out with the Mets. He's gonna start out the first 2months of the season a little medicore. I could see his ERA bein something like 4.50. And people will say "what's wrong with Johan?". I'm tellin you guys, don't worry about it. If you look at his ERA after June 1 every year, he's pretty much lights out after. He's just always a little sluggish the first 2 months of the season. But Aftr June 1, he's barely hittable
-Pete

No DH?, Not having to pitch against the Indians and Tigers 4-5 times each? He could win 25 games with an ERA near 2.00

He is in the national league now. He won't be completing as many games as he would if he was in the American League. He will get lifted for a pitch hitter or runner or whatever. I will say he wins 21 games and no more in the national league.

I don't think he'll be 4.50 early mainly from getting to face hitters who haven't seen him much or at all and getting to pitch to the pitcher instead of a DH. I do agree with you he'll get better as the weather heats up as a lot of Latin American players do.

Good point about not having to face the DH, and facing more unfamiliar hitters, but Johan's M.O. is starting sluggishly the first 2 months. Until I see otherwise, I think it'll happen again. I'm just sayin, if it does happen, don't panic or start jumping to conclusions that he's a bust.

Fortunately for Johan, Mets fans are a heck of a lot more patient than their crosstown rivals. I think he'll start slow but considering the league switch starting slow could easily be an ERA around 3.00.

If an ERA of 3 is his starting point, he'll be on his way to a borderline historical season by the time August comes around. I shutter to see how sick-nasty he could be this year.

I agree...As a Sox fan, I saw way too much of him and I really don't think people realize how dominant he is and how insane he will be in a very weak NL and without having to face a DH

That being said...Nathan was one of the game's best and with his being pulled earlier for a PH, he will be at the mercy of his bullpen more now...especially the bridge guys

zito-7 years 126 mil
santana-6 years 150 mil

you have to admit there is going to be a difference, and the mets are cringeing at the thought of dealing this out, but have no choice,

santanas agent has them by the balls and after the collapse last year the mets fans want results. hes going to get more then zito is by far

1. NY Yankees 195,229,045
2. Boston 143,123,714
3. NY Mets 116,115,819
4. Chicago Sox 109,290,167


expect them to roll right up alongside boston after this

For next year the Mets are right around $101 million prior to Santana. If he gets $25 million that will put them at $126. My guess is they defer money like they did with Beltran. If not I don't think they'll lose sleep over being at $126 million, especially being free of Pedro, Delgado, and Wagner's $44 million of that after this season.

snipe i see the mets are raiseing tix price by 20% when they move into thier new stadium. do you know how much the yanks are going to raise thiers? just curious if you have seen anything on it?

No clue, I don't care how much all these rich guys are making, just how much they are willing to spend. :)

:D

Probably 21 % so Hank can say they beat the Mets

I kinda disagree with this for 2 reasons-
1) the Mets know what they're getting into by making this trade
2) I wasn't naive to the fact that after the deal was all said and done- no matter what team he got traded to, or even if the Twins somehow retained him, that he's gonna be the 2nd highest paid player in baseball behind A-Rod.

thats what i was getting at. i thought all along he was getting more then zito. i knew the mets were going to have to cough up the highest price for any pitcher in mlb with this.but they do have a little less leverage then other teams due to the circumstances of the mets

if you want to see yankee stadium in its original look you gotta pay

What the hell are the Mets considering Kyle Lohse for still? Actually what were they considering him for in the first place?

Looks like Santana wants $20 million this year while the Mets are offering less. So assuming Santana winds up with $20 million that would leave them with this:

Santana LHSP 20,000,000
Martinez RHSP 11,500,000
O Hernandez RHSP 6,500,000
Maine RHSP 400,000
Ol Perez LHSP 4,000,000
Pelfrey RHSP 1,800,000

Wagner LHRP 10,500,000
Heilman RHRP 1,200,000
Feliciano LHRP 750,000
Sanchez RHRP 850,000
Schoenweiss LHRP 3,600,000
Burgos RHRP 350,000
J Sosa RHLR 2,000,000
Wise RHRP 1,200,000

Schneider C 4,900,000
Castro C 2,100,000

Delgado 1B 12,000,000
Castillo 2B 7,000,000
Reyes SS 4,000,000
Wright 3B 5,000,000
Easley 2B 950,000

Church LF 400,000
Beltran CF 10,000,000
Alou RF 7,500,000
Chavez LF 1,800,000
Anderson, M 2B/OF 1,050,000


Total 121,350,000


Right around the target of $120 million and that actually includes 26 players.

Maybe because they have 2 guys in the rotation who have no shot of making the season without some time off (Pedro and El Duque), one guy who is always close to coming apart at the seams(Perez), and one guy who is still a big question mark (Pelphrey)? Agree that Lohse is not a top starter but he does eat innings and is good enough to be a number 4 starter in the NL. That being said there is no way I'm giving him any long term deal at 10 mill a year.

Is there a time machine in the new stadium?

I'd rather Pelfrey get some experience getting shelled than go with Lohse (and paying him a lot). I'd take an inning eater like Livan for cheap long before him. I don't even think Lohse would be much of an upgrade over Jorge Sosa. I agree that Hernandez and Pedro won't be healthy all season but they have seven guys that can start already if need be. If they want to add one more they should do it for cheap. Lieber went for 1 year $3.5 million to the Cubs. That is a heck of a lot better deal than a multiyear deal for Lohse.

Livan is completely finished. Loshe is not good but he is what he is. A 6 inning guy who will battle and give up about 3 runs an outing. He never misses a start and may wind up being effective out of the bullpen if everybody stays healthy. I agree that you dont want to get tied down to him for big money. But it is looking like he has very few options and may agree to a short term deal. He is better insurance than anyone else out there.

A finished Livan still managed to put up just as good ERAs as Lohse the past two years and had a much better record. I agree that Livan will never be as good as he was but if he is available for one year and Lohse isn't then I think it is a much better deal for the Mets.

You know as well as I do that wins and losses are a poor measuring stick especially for middle of the road pitchers. Loshe was much better than Livan was last year.

Loshe- 192 innings 207 hits 57 bbs 122 k's 4.62 ERA hitters had a .279 avge against and .339 OBP

Livan- 204 Innings 247 hits 79 bbs 90 k's 4.93 era hitters batted .308 with a .371 OPB.

When you consider that Loshe played in Cincy and then Philly last year which are 2 stone cold hitters parks and considering that he played with an awful Cincy defense behind him for most of the year the edge is even greater. Livan used to K around 180 in a similar amount of innings, that drop is a horrible sign for a guy who allows as many hits as he does. He seems to be suffering from pitching 250 innings a year all these years. The Livan of 3 or 4 years ago is much better than Loshe ever was but he looks cooked.

yup thats what the boss says

When they are both pitching for a bad team then record is a bit more of a factor. Livan's K's were way down and his WHIP was horrible yet he still managed an ERA close to Lohse's. Regardless, it isn't who is better, it is what they will cost. And if Lohse wants a multi-year deal then I think they are far better off bringing in Livan to be insurance on a one year deal.

Maybe you missed the playoffs last year. The Diamondbacks were in them. Livan was a batting practice picher last year. If he came free they would be making a mistake.

Didn't Lohse make like one playoff pitch and give up a grand slam effectively ending the Phillies?? He's horrible, but I guess playing in the minor league as the Mets are in he'll be ok.

He isnt very good but pitching in Shea with a solid defense behind him will make him bearable.

Everyone in the NL was horrible last year.

Livan was among the horribilist

The deal is done