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-   -   Belichick--Coach of the Year (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19143)

GBBob 01-03-2008 03:38 PM

Belichick--Coach of the Year
 
Taking nothing away from the Pats performance, but this team was heavily favored to win the SB even before going 16-0..Would he have won the award if they were 13-3...14-2...probably not. I think the COY should be associated with a turn around team or one that overcame heavy adversity ( getting caught cheating doesn't count) to have a superior season.

Browns, GB, Jacksonville come to mind...

Scav 01-03-2008 03:39 PM

Crennel should have won, complete turn around, and even at the start of the season they looked to go 4-12 again

GBBob 01-03-2008 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Crennel should have won, complete turn around, and even at the start of the season they looked to go 4-12 again

BTW..McCarthy finished second..If you can make case for Romeo, you can make one for him

wiphan 01-03-2008 03:54 PM

I think Brad Childress should have won COY!

GBBob 01-03-2008 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan
I think Brad Childress should have won COY!

Come on Sean....Lovie by a landslide

Bigsmc 01-03-2008 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Crennel should have won, complete turn around, and even at the start of the season they looked to go 4-12 again

After losing 34-7 in their first week and having the stones to trade his starting QB, then turning around what looked like another horrid season....I think Romeo is the guy.

KY_Sasquash 01-03-2008 04:07 PM

thought McCarthy shouldve gotten it. the Pack has a great shot of making the superbowl, he's kept Favre playing smart and found a running game in wk 6..............couldve also seen Romeo getting it.

wiphan 01-03-2008 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
Come on Sean....Lovie by a landslide

Lovie was a close 2nd in my voting, but Childress won out! Anyone who can have #1 run defense, Adrian Peterson (ROY) and Chester Taylor at running back, etc and finish a solid 8-8 to miss the playoffs wins in my book! All Lovie did was take a sb team and let them finish 7-9. Both miss the playoffs and don't get a high draft pick. I couldn't be happier!

In all seriousness, Romeo or McCarthy would have been a better choice. McCarthy is better solely for his last name.


Although it is hard to argue against Adrian Peterson for ROY, Joe Thomas sure helped turn aroung the browns. I believe he is one of the biggest reasons for their turnaround

GBBob 01-03-2008 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan
Lovie was a close 2nd in my voting, but Childress won out! Anyone who can have #1 run defense, Adrian Peterson (ROY) and Chester Taylor at running back, etc and finish a solid 8-8 to miss the playoffs wins in my book! All Lovie did was take a sb team and let them finish 7-9. Both miss the playoffs and don't get a high draft pick. I couldn't be happier!

In all seriousness, Romeo or McCarthy would have been a better choice. McCarthy is better solely for his last name.

Although it is hard to argue against Adrian Peterson for ROY, Joe Thomas sure helped turn aroung the browns. I believe he is one of the biggest reasons for their turnaround

I guess that's really my point..Romeo or even Youngblood would be good, but not Belichick

Coach Pants 01-03-2008 04:45 PM

Jeff Fisher

ddthetide 01-03-2008 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
Jeff Fisher

beat me to it. the titans don't belong in the playoffs but might be better without young at qb.

ninetoone 01-03-2008 05:23 PM

Del Rio was no slouch either

Hickory Hill Hoff 01-03-2008 05:52 PM

Romeo...where are thou?

Cannon Shell 01-03-2008 05:59 PM

When you go 16-0 you are the coach of the year. Who possibly did a better job than a guy whose team didn't lose?

Coach Pants 01-03-2008 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
When you go 16-0 you are the coach of the year. Who possibly did a better job than a guy whose team didn't lose?

That's true. It's not like Randy Moss or Stallworth could've gone elsewhere for lots more money. Oh wait....

Cannon Shell 01-03-2008 09:03 PM

Getting through a season with no Randy Moss meltdowns alone is a tremendous accomplishment

Coach Pants 01-03-2008 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Getting through a season with no Randy Moss meltdowns alone is a tremendous accomplishment

He's a smart guy. It's unfortunate he's the most self-centered football player of all time. If he actually was a professional he wouldn't have quit in Minnesota and Oakland just because they were losing.

Of course he's going to be on his best behavior on a team that has won 3 Super Bowls this decade. I hope they lose because he's trying to quit his way to a championship.

hi_im_god 01-03-2008 09:48 PM

why does coty have to be someone who coached their teams to a losing season the year before? weren't they the same ones that sucked last year?

it's like voting the reformed alcoholic "sober person of the year".

forget it. there's no argueing against 16-0. the right choice was made.

Danzig 01-03-2008 11:00 PM

no way any coach other than belicheck could get it this year with that 16-0 record.

loved his SI cover by the way....

horseofcourse 01-04-2008 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Crennel should have won, complete turn around, and even at the start of the season they looked to go 4-12 again

He wasn't terrible, but he did many odd things...flipping a coin to decide your starting qb?? Picking the wrong one but bailed out by Savage. The team had many odd things happen. Their schedule was one of the easiest in NFL history as well...beat one team with winning record (Seattle) and one .500 team (Houston)

played Oakland... 4 wins (lost to them)
Ravens twice... 5 wins
Dolphins... 1 win
Rams... 3 wins
Bengals twice... 7 wins (lost to them once)
Jets...3 wins
bills...7 wins
Cardinals...8 wins (lost to them)
49ers...5 wins

played only 3 teams with a winning record (Seattle, NE and PIttsburgh) and went 1-3 against them.

The 10-6 record was more a product of the ridiculously easy schedule, good personnel moves by Randy Savage (the drafting of Joe Thomas--Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald and FA signings of Jamal Lewis and Eric Steinbach, trading of Charlie Frye) , and the offensive coordinator Chudzinski than Crennel.

I don't think he was coach of the year. When you need one more win to make the playoffs and couldn't beat Oakland, Arizona playing without Fitzgerald, or Cincinnati who was playing with two backup safeties on an already horrid defense I don't think you are coach of the year. Those losses weren't all his fault, but still.

KY_Sasquash 01-04-2008 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Getting through a season with no Randy Moss meltdowns alone is a tremendous accomplishment


winning cures all.............see TO's 2 rants this year-happen to be the games that the cowboys lost. hopefully will see one more TO rant!

2 Dollar Bill 01-04-2008 09:21 AM

Did he win a New ""cutoff arms"" hoodie , for being C O Y ? :D

wiphan 01-04-2008 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
When you go 16-0 you are the coach of the year. Who possibly did a better job than a guy whose team didn't lose?


He took a veteran team and improved them from a 12-4 record last year in a terrible division that had 12 total wins between all 3 teams and made them 16-0. I think taking the youngest team in football from 8-8 last year to 13-3 is more deserving.

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan
He took a veteran team and improved them from a 12-4 record last year in a terrible division that had 12 total wins between all 3 teams and made them 16-0. I think taking the youngest team in football from 8-8 last year to 13-3 is more deserving.

Uh they lost ZERO games. Plenty of teams improve year to year. They did something that has never been done, win 16 in a row. I think improving a 12 win team 4 games is a much greater task than improving a mediocre team. They didn't play well in 2 games out of 16 and won anyway. Those other guys did nice jobs but an undefeated NFL season has to win the award.

wiphan 01-04-2008 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Uh they lost ZERO games. Plenty of teams improve year to year. They did something that has never been done, win 16 in a row. I think improving a 12 win team 4 games is a much greater task than improving a mediocre team. They didn't play well in 2 games out of 16 and won anyway. Those other guys did nice jobs but an undefeated NFL season has to win the award.

I agree it was impressive to go 16-0, especially since they found a way to win when they shouldn't have, however he did also lose a first round draft pick for their team and get fined $500k for cheating.

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiphan
I agree it was impressive to go 16-0, especially since they found a way to win when they shouldn't have, however he did also lose a first round draft pick for their team and get fined $500k for cheating.

Even more reason since you know the victories were clean!

GBBob 01-04-2008 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Uh they lost ZERO games. Plenty of teams improve year to year. They did something that has never been done, win 16 in a row. I think improving a 12 win team 4 games is a much greater task than improving a mediocre team. They didn't play well in 2 games out of 16 and won anyway. Those other guys did nice jobs but an undefeated NFL season has to win the award.

Gotta' disagree...I don't think adding 4 wins with the pre-season SuperBowl fave that just added Randy Moss is a better accomplishment than adding 5 wins with the NFL's youngest team, an aging QB that supposedly was washed up, no running game until Week 7, one proven WR, a rookie place kicker and playing in arguably one of the hardest divisions top to bottom.

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
Gotta' disagree...I don't think adding 4 wins with the pre-season SuperBowl fave that just added Randy Moss is a better accomplishment than adding 5 wins with the NFL's youngest team, an aging QB that supposedly was washed up, no running game until Week 7, one proven WR, a rookie place kicker and playing in arguably one of the hardest divisions top to bottom.

But the QB is one of the top 3 or 4 and you lost 2 times to the Bears (which is really bad).

Your guy did a nice job but the other guy did something that none of the other great coaches or teams (save 1) did. Not Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi or Tom Landry. It is a historical season that they had. Green Bay had a very good season. To me that is the difference.

Let me ask you a question? Do you think that the Pats would have gone undefeated with any other coach? They starting defense is full of guys as old as me, they recently lost the best kicker in the history of the game, they played the third string running back over half of the year, and with few exceptions blew everybody out. Sure they have some great players but he got them to perform 16 weeks in a row. Hell the freaking linebackers are catching TD passes every week. The guy is a great coach, and he was at his best this year.

I cant believe you haven't metioned the Swisher trade yet???

GBBob 01-04-2008 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
But the QB is one of the top 3 or 4 and you lost 2 times to the Bears (which is really bad).

Your guy did a nice job but the other guy did something that none of the other great coaches or teams (save 1) did. Not Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi or Tom Landry. It is a historical season that they had. Green Bay had a very good season. To me that is the difference.

Let me ask you a question? Do you think that the Pats would have gone undefeated with any other coach? They starting defense is full of guys as old as me, they recently lost the best kicker in the history of the game, they played the third string running back over half of the year, and with few exceptions blew everybody out. Sure they have some great players but he got them to perform 16 weeks in a row. Hell the freaking linebackers are catching TD passes every week. The guy is a great coach, and he was at his best this year.

I cant believe you haven't metioned the Swisher trade yet???

Please..one debacle at a time..

OK..If the Pats had gone 15-1..is he COY..14-2? Where is the line drawn or is the only thing that matters 16-0? And I'm not saying he isn't a great coach, but yes, I am saying that half..ok..a quarter of the NFL coaches could have gone 16-0 with that team ( that otta' be good for a few retorts)..

Regarding Swisher, that, in my mind secures Kenny Williams as Exec of the Year

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
Please..one debacle at a time..

OK..If the Pats had gone 15-1..is he COY..14-2? Where is the line drawn or is the only thing that matters 16-0? And I'm not saying he isn't a great coach, but yes, I am saying that half..ok..a quarter of the NFL coaches could have gone 16-0 with that team ( that otta' be good for a few retorts)..

Regarding Swisher, that, in my mind secures Kenny Williams as Exec of the Year

No

No other current coach would have gone undefeated with that team or any team for that matter.

Swisher deserves his own thread

GBBob 01-04-2008 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
No

No other current coach would have gone undefeated with that team or any team for that matter.

Swisher deserves his own thread

So basically winning one game determines if you are COY or not? And yes, I realize that one game was rather important, but I still think it's "easier" to take an excellent team and make them unbeaten than it is to take a previously mediocre team and make them playoff worthy...
agree to disagree I guess

Must go handicap Belgium Bobsledders now...too much past posting to worry about ponies

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
So basically winning one game determines if you are COY or not? And yes, I realize that one game was rather important, but I still think it's "easier" to take an excellent team and make them unbeaten than it is to take a previously mediocre team and make them playoff worthy...
agree to disagree I guess

Must go handicap Belgium Bobsledders now...too much past posting to worry about ponies

One happens pretty much every year and one happens every 30 years

maybe we need a MIC (most improved Coach)

Danzig 01-04-2008 09:04 PM

regarding improving a mediocre team and getting to the playoffs...
several mediocrities got in the playoffs. also, how many teams go to the playoffs each year? how many go 16-0 in a year? i'd say the latter is quite a bit harder!!

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
regarding improving a mediocre team and getting to the playoffs...
several mediocrities got in the playoffs. also, how many teams go to the playoffs each year? how many go 16-0 in a year? i'd say the latter is quite a bit harder!!

Stop blindly following me!!! LOL

Danzig 01-04-2008 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Stop blindly following me!!! LOL

you mean like in the bcs/playoff thread?!?! :D

Cannon Shell 01-04-2008 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
you mean like in the bcs/playoff thread?!?! :D

Yeah like that!

hi_im_god 01-04-2008 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
So basically winning one game determines if you are COY or not? And yes, I realize that one game was rather important, but I still think it's "easier" to take an excellent team and make them unbeaten than it is to take a previously mediocre team and make them playoff worthy...
agree to disagree I guess

Must go handicap Belgium Bobsledders now...too much past posting to worry about ponies

"I still think it's "easier" to take an excellent team and make them unbeaten than it is to take a previously mediocre team and make them playoff worthy..."

the same excellent team he coached last year?

as opposed to the previously mediocre team coached by your candidate?

can we at least end the debate with excellent-undefeated is better than mediocre-playoff worthy?

GBBob 01-04-2008 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_im_god
"I still think it's "easier" to take an excellent team and make them unbeaten than it is to take a previously mediocre team and make them playoff worthy..."

the same excellent team he coached last year?

as opposed to the previously mediocre team coached by your candidate?

can we at least end the debate with excellent-undefeated is better than mediocre-playoff worthy?

you...especially you ( and I mean that respectfully) should know that the debate is never..over

the previously mediocre team inherited by my candidate who was undefeated vs the AFC, vs the team that should have gone to the Super Bowl LY until they blew an 18 pt lead and then had Randy Moss dropped in their lap?

pgardn 01-04-2008 10:31 PM

Even though bill cheated.
Its got to be bill.

I dont like cheaters.
But the Pats are an
amazing team.

Here is hoping they
lose cause I dislike bill and randy.
Brady... I like him.
Even if he can't pull his
teeth apart when he talks.

don't know what the deal is with the teeth but it irritates the heck out of me

hi_im_god 01-04-2008 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob
you...especially you ( and I mean that respectfully) should know that the debate is never..over

the previously mediocre team inherited by my candidate who was undefeated vs the AFC, vs the team that should have gone to the Super Bowl LY until they blew an 18 pt lead and then had Randy Moss dropped in their lap?

okay. so you know where my heart is.

mccarthy inherited them last year. the mediocre one. i'm really happy with what they've accomplished. looking forward to 08.

but my head is elsewhere.

managing a great team to a perfect season is harder than what the packers did. it just is.

expectations are higher. the pressure is higher. bellichek has done a great job. mangini helped a little with keeping them focused but bellichek played that perfectly.

and stop exposing me.


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