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Monarchos1 11-14-2007 11:50 AM

At the Races Audience Poll
 
Interesting ballot on the radio show's home page, www.thoroughbredracingradionetwork.com, asking folks to vote for the best races this year. There's a big selection, including some I had completely forgotten about, to choose from, but you can do a write in vote, too. Besides the race divisions, they have Best Story and Person of the Year categories. Just curious what folks on this site consider to be the "Best of" the year, especially on those latter two categories? Steve said yesterday they will be putting together some special programs to announce the winners.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...R4GwRyMg_3d_3d

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 12:09 PM

I could find no such poll at that link.

However, I think it's pretty clear that the "race of the year" is either...

Curlin's Buckpasser like comeback after not getting his trip early and being left for dead to beat the Derby winner in the Preakness.

Or, Rags To Riches beating Curlin in a great Belmont stretch clash.

Perhaps the Street Sense over Any Given Saturday Tampa Derby would be a clear cut and distant 3rd.

For me, It's the Preakness.

The Belmont featured a painfully slow pace - one of the more bizarre tactical rides you'll ever see in Gomez rating Hard Spun off that slow pace - and the race really had an inconclusive feel to it from a post race analysis standpoint.

I know a lot of people thought R2R ran by far the best race - I think Cannon said she had everything but the guy who ran on the track to punch Artax on the Preakness undercard go against her - but her "trouble" in that race all seemed highly overrated to me. When you consider how laughably slow the pace was - the bad stumble at the start meant nothing as long as she didn't hurt herself in doing so. The wide trip on the turns was also greatly overrated - when you consider it was a slow paced race - and at Belmont Park, where skimming the rail isn't exactly a great advantage.

Her main rivals Curlin and Hard Spun both looked out of their game. To a much lesser extent, Curlin didn't look very comfortable down inside of traffic behind the crawl pace...and to a greater extent, Hard Spun had no chance from off the lead in a slow paced 12 furlong race.

stonegossard 11-14-2007 12:26 PM

For me race of the year was Smokey Stover winning the Sprint last year at SA on Fla/Cal day in January. Had a ton of money on him that day. How could one not have bet him ?

cmorioles 11-14-2007 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I could find no such poll at that link.

Look for this:


I had to do some write ins. For 2yo race of the year, I went with War Pass in the Champagne. For Sprint, I went with Fabulous Strike in the Vosburgh. For Turf Race, I voted for the Arc since it didn't specify US races only.

FM Turf, I went with Wait A While in the Ballston Spa. This was for two reasons. One, she ran great, and two, she did while Pletcher couldn't win a race at the meet.

For race of the year, I went with Curlin winning the Classic as he just dominated a very good field.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard
For me race of the year was Smokey Stover winning the Sprint last year at SA on Fla/Cal day in January. Had a ton of money on him that day. How could one not have bet him ?

He had your all-time favorite angle in his corner that day - first time Aaron Gryder on a difficult to ride sprinter!

philcski 11-14-2007 12:48 PM

From an entertainment perspective, the Belmont wins hands down.

Kasept 11-14-2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard
For me race of the year was Smokey Stover winning the Sprint last year at SA on Fla/Cal day in January. Had a ton of money on him that day. How could one not have bet him ?

I loved him that day too.. We got 7-1, I think...

Was part of the Magna 5, no?...

LINK TO SURVEY:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...R4GwRyMg_3d_3d

stonegossard 11-14-2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
He had your all-time favorite angle in his corner that day - first time Aaron Gryder on a difficult to ride sprinter!


Smokey stover should win eclipse award for sprinters based on the fact he still won with that incompetent idiot on his back.

stonegossard 11-14-2007 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
I loved him that day too.. We got 7-1, I think...

Was part of the Magna 5, no?...


Yeah...was 8-1 or so. God that was easy.

Kasept 11-14-2007 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard
Smokey stover should win eclipse award for sprinters based on the fact he still won with that incompetent idiot on his back.

How can you say that about the top Jewish rider in the game?

cmorioles 11-14-2007 01:00 PM

He paid just about the total of all his previous wins combined.

Scurlogue Champ 11-14-2007 01:01 PM

Golden Hare is the best horse in the country...

winning machine

stonegossard 11-14-2007 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
How can you say that about the top Jewish rider in the game?

Please....there has to be a better Jewish jock out there. Isn't Jose Bracetty Jewish. How about Barrington Harvey? Please tell me there are other Jewish jocks around we can give that title to.

NTamm1215 11-14-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonegossard
Please....there has to be a better Jewish jock out there. Isn't Jose Bracetty Jewish. How about Barrington Harvey? Please tell me there are other Jewish jocks around we can give that title to.

David Cohen?

At least we Italians have Dettori. I guess.

NT

philcski 11-14-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
How can you say that about the top Jewish rider in the game?

Off topic, here's something I could never figure out: why has there never been a Jewish President or Vice President? Does the conservative Christian right wing have that much strength?

stonegossard 11-14-2007 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
David Cohen?

At least we Italians have Dettori. I guess.

NT


Compared to Gryder, David Cohen is a modern day Eddie Arcaro.


Yes..you have Dettori.....but I believe you also have William Antongeorgi.

We'll call it a scratch.

Monarchos1 11-14-2007 01:21 PM

best person
 
I think I'd have to go with the Ellis owner as person of the year. That track is so much better now that he's running it instead of Churchill and he offered that lower P4 takeout for the whole meet so simulcast players could enjoy the benefits of new ownership, too.

philcski 11-14-2007 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchos1
I think I'd have to go with the Ellis owner as person of the year. That track is so much better now that he's running it instead of Churchill and he offered that lower P4 takeout for the whole meet so simulcast players could enjoy the benefits of new ownership, too.

Very good call on that. I played Ellis more this year than I ever had, combined.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 01:25 PM

OK, now that I've found the link amidst the Nascar like ads section, I'll post my choices.

Juvenile Fillies Division:

To me, WITHOUT QUESTION, the best performance of the year by a 2yo filly came when Indian Blessing broke her maiden in her debut. Looking like a female version of the early Seattle Slew, she broke poorly from a rail draw that's VERY tough going 5.5 if you don't leave the gates well. Despite that, she unleashed a breath taking display of sustained speed. I've seen Maykovsky, Macho Uno, and Harmony Lodge all have tremendous debuts going 5.5 furlongs at Saratoga this decade...and I have no doubt Indian Blessing's performance was better.

Among the options in the poll - I'd take Indian Blessing's BC Juvie fillies win. I strongly believe IB, like her dam, is a pure sprinter...and it's to her credit that she's been able to win a pair of Grade 1 races in career starts 2 and 3 at distances that I believe are far beyond her scope. She will be exposed in route races next year - but certainly has the talent to be considered a strong contender for the second running of the BC Filly and Mare sprint in '08.

Juvenile Division:

I see a maiden performance was added in this category - and while it was a remarkable thing to watch visually - Numaany won a very slow race over an uninspiring group of horses. If anyone remembers back to last year - Giant Chieftan was beaten 4 lengths in his debut at Saratoga after doing the same exact thing - at the same point of the race - with the same jockey (Javier Castallano) up. It was also a soft maiden race - and Giant Chieftan has since been always bet and always disapoints.

I think War Pass's BC Juvenile win is a very obvious selection. It was by open lengths the fastest Beyer ever earned by a runner in that race - and while circumstances may have made the race look better than it was - it was still a giant effort.

Filly and Mare Turf Division:

I don't really think I saw a single memorable Filly and Mare turf race all year long. By default, the Breeders Cup F & M Turf is my pick - even though it was run over a soft turf course - and featured a Euro runner who cost all chance to at least two of her rivals by racing very erratic before finally being eased up.

Sprint Division:

I can certainly understand the exclusion of IB's debut win in the Juv fillies poll. I don't get how the Vosburgh and especially the Forego were excluded in this one! The Forego is obviously the choice here.

It was a historic performance from a speed figure standpoint by the winner, Midnight Lute. Since the Beyer figures have been published in the Daily racing form more than 15 years ago - no horse had ever run a Beyer of greater than 124 sprinting...and prior to the Forego, only Artax had run a 124 Beyer. Which he did just once, when he broke Mr. Prospector's track record for six furlongs at Gulfstream Park while beating the following year's champion Kona Gold in the BC Sprint. Not only did Midnight Lute's 124 Beyer in the Forego equal the best sprint Beyer ever published - but his negative 7 Thoro-Graph figure in that race broke Ghostzapper's mark for fastest TG fig ever. Midnight Lute did win the BC Sprint next out - but that was at a distance a little sharp of his liking..and was not an overwhelming performance analytically.

Mile Divison:

I'd give an edge to Shakespeare's exciting win at Kip Deville's expense at Woodbine.

Distaff Divison:

While not as exciting or entertaining of a race as the BC Distaff or Alabama was - Rags To Riches Kentucky Oaks was a giant performance in an important race.

Turf Division:

English Channel going out with a lopsided win in the BC Turf is very obviously the winner here. I know there were circumstance that made his race look better than it was - much like with War Pass's juvenile - but both races are impossible to deny.

Classic Division:

The Preakness wins this - as well as race of the year.

Stories:

I'm not a big story guy at all - but I'd assume a filly winning the Belmont after 102 years would win. Though, it's not like she didn't have a big chance to win it going in.

Person of the Year:

Did anyone else find it amusing that both Larry Jones and Rick Porter are on this list? I vote for Scavs.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski
why has there never been a Jewish President or Vice President?

Because Freddy Mo has never had an interest in politics.

Bystander 11-14-2007 01:30 PM

I was just thinking to myself, I sure hope DrugS posts his choices with detail.

Monarchos1 11-14-2007 01:32 PM

I think it will be interesting to see which races win. Some folks will vote based on performance (big Beyers, margin, etc.) while others will look at the race itself (great duel, circumstances, etc.). I thought the dead heat with Bit of Whimsy and Rutherienne was a fabulous race in the F & M turf division.

Coach Pants 11-14-2007 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchos1
I think I'd have to go with the Ellis owner as person of the year. That track is so much better now that he's running it instead of Churchill and he offered that lower P4 takeout for the whole meet so simulcast players could enjoy the benefits of new ownership, too.

He's also in negotiations to lower the mutual workers "takeout."

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
I was just thinking to myself, I sure hope DrugS posts his choices with detail.

I serve at the pleasure of Carla.

Bystander 11-14-2007 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles
Look for this:


I had to do some write ins. For 2yo race of the year, I went with War Pass in the Champagne. For Sprint, I went with Fabulous Strike in the Vosburgh. For Turf Race, I voted for the Arc since it didn't specify US races only.

FM Turf, I went with Wait A While in the Ballston Spa. This was for two reasons. One, she ran great, and two, she did while Pletcher couldn't win a race at the meet.

For race of the year, I went with Curlin winning the Classic as he just dominated a very good field.

What about the Just a Game on the Belmont undercard where My Typhoon easily beat Wait a While, "the best US turf filly" ?
I can ask DrugS...

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
What about the Just a Game on the Belmont undercard where My Typhoon easily beat Wait a While, "the best US turf filly" ?
I can ask DrugS...

That race was a joke.

A five horse field where My TYphoon was left on an uncontested lead through slow fractions.

Want me to start a Fireside Chat W/ DrugS Thread? I'm that available - I will take anyones questions on any topic right up until 7:30 PM

Bystander 11-14-2007 02:00 PM

Yeah I said I COULD ask you, if mr cmorioles chooses not to respond.
I know she was loose on the lead, but with a guy I despise yelling in my ear, "Wait a While's the BEST horse in training" as they went into the gate, I relish the fact that My Typhoon beat her. And remember- Wait a While went WITH My Typhoon early, and crumpled like a filthy tube sock.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
Yeah I said I COULD ask you,

I was kind of hoping you'd ask where I had to be to call the Fireside Chat W/ DrugS thread off at 7:30 .... ironically .. the answer had something to do with a crumpled up tube sock.

Bystander 11-14-2007 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I was kind of hoping you'd ask where I had to be to call the Fireside Chat W/ DrugS thread off at 7:30 .... ironically .. the answer had something to do with a crumpled up tube sock.

I'm too smart for you, Drugs, hasn't this already been established?

NTamm1215 11-14-2007 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
And remember- Wait a While went WITH My Typhoon early, and crumpled like a filthy tube sock.

That's completely false. Inexplicably, Garrett Gomez took back with Wait A While and opted to watch Eddie Castro set pedestrian fractions en route to an easy victory. There was no duel and Wait A While did not crumble.

Wait A While then conclusively beat the opportunistic My Typhoon in the Ballston Spa by a rather handy margin.

NT

Bystander 11-14-2007 02:30 PM

I don't believe I used the word "duel," and if you watch the race- as I did just now- Wait a While sat right outside My Typhoon for most of the race- yes, My Typhoon set a very slow pace, and yes, Gomez had a death hold on Wait a While, but she was right there the entire trip and when they quickened, she had nothing.

cmorioles 11-14-2007 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
I don't believe I used the word "duel," and if you watch the race- as I did just now- Wait a While sat right outside My Typhoon for most of the race- yes, My Typhoon set a very slow pace, and yes, Gomez had a death hold on Wait a While, but she was right there the entire trip and when they quickened, she had nothing.

This is why I picked the race I did. Wait A While stunk all year. Then, when Pletcher horses were running absolutely horribly, she popped the huge one. I can only imagine he saved his last dose for that day.

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 02:43 PM

Lawyer Ron's huge Woodward win was a few days later I think.

NTamm1215 11-14-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
I don't believe I used the word "duel," and if you watch the race- as I did just now- Wait a While sat right outside My Typhoon for most of the race- yes, My Typhoon set a very slow pace, and yes, Gomez had a death hold on Wait a While, but she was right there the entire trip and when they quickened, she had nothing.

I've watched the race plenty of times to know that Gomez keeping a hammer lock on Wait a While was going to be too much to overcome. His ride in that particular race was inexplicable. Wait a While already had a wire to wire victory earlier in the spring yet he decided to choke her down. Castro rationed My Typhoon's speed early very well, but to say that that particular effort proved anything other than that Gomez had a horrible Belmont day is wrong in my opinion.

I was a fan of the Ballston Spa not for precisely the same reasons as some others, but more because it really had a talented and deep field. It was a good effort by Wait A While, who did indeed hail from the frigid Todd Pletcher barn at the time.

NT

cmorioles 11-14-2007 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Lawyer Ron's huge Woodward win was a few days later I think.

He was the only horse, other than Wait A While, that ran much the whole meet. I didn't really figure he could lose that day, even given the Pletcher slump.

Can we add a question to the poll? Who had the worst training meet of the year?

a) Pletcher, Sar
b) Asmussen, PID

The Indomitable DrugS 11-14-2007 02:53 PM

Having to witness option B first-hand was downright painful.

I'm not so sure Curlin wouldn't have found a way to lose there.

Bystander 11-14-2007 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
I've watched the race plenty of times to know that Gomez keeping a hammer lock on Wait a While was going to be too much to overcome. His ride in that particular race was inexplicable. Wait a While already had a wire to wire victory earlier in the spring yet he decided to choke her down. Castro rationed My Typhoon's speed early very well, but to say that that particular effort proved anything other than that Gomez had a horrible Belmont day is wrong in my opinion.

I was a fan of the Ballston Spa not for precisely the same reasons as some others, but more because it really had a talented and deep field. It was a good effort by Wait A While, who did indeed hail from the frigid Todd Pletcher barn at the time.

NT

OK, fair enough. At least you didn't work tube socks into your reasoning.
She didn't "crumble," but, in my opinion and at 7-10, she showed absolutley nothing.

NTamm1215 11-14-2007 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bystander
OK, fair enough. At least you didn't work tube socks into your reasoning.
She didn't "crumble," but, in my opinion and at 7-10, she showed absolutley nothing.

Agreed. I suppose I was more disappointed in myself for still believing at the time that Mauralakana was a Grade II caliber horse. I was wrong.

NT

freddymo 11-14-2007 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I could find no such poll at that link.

However, I think it's pretty clear that the "race of the year" is either...

Curlin's Buckpasser like comeback after not getting his trip early and being left for dead to beat the Derby winner in the Preakness.

Or, Rags To Riches beating Curlin in a great Belmont stretch clash.

Perhaps the Street Sense over Any Given Saturday Tampa Derby would be a clear cut and distant 3rd.

For me, It's the Preakness.

The Belmont featured a painfully slow pace - one of the more bizarre tactical rides you'll ever see in Gomez rating Hard Spun off that slow pace - and the race really had an inconclusive feel to it from a post race analysis standpoint.

I know a lot of people thought R2R ran by far the best race - I think Cannon said she had everything but the guy who ran on the track to punch Artax on the Preakness undercard go against her - but her "trouble" in that race all seemed highly overrated to me. When you consider how laughably slow the pace was - the bad stumble at the start meant nothing as long as she didn't hurt herself in doing so. The wide trip on the turns was also greatly overrated - when you consider it was a slow paced race - and at Belmont Park, where skimming the rail isn't exactly a great advantage.

Her main rivals Curlin and Hard Spun both looked out of their game. To a much lesser extent, Curlin didn't look very comfortable down inside of traffic behind the crawl pace...and to a greater extent, Hard Spun had no chance from off the lead in a slow paced 12 furlong race.

What about R2R sick win in Ca. when see circled the field and was 7 wide into a speed favoring track. That to me was preety special.. How about when that midget of a horse EC CRUSHED in BC. That was pretty spectular eventhough I hate that horse.

Monarchos1 11-14-2007 06:51 PM

I notice Jess Jackson as an option for person on the poll. Gary West made a compelling case for him on the show today and in a column earlier this week. Hard to argue with West's logic even if one doesn't care for the winemaker.


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