Spill @ Hollywood
 

Race 6

Looked like Jara and Valdivia....

Gruesome replay to watch.

The head-on shot during the stops inquiry as the second horse goes down.

I knew they would leave him up.They want that boy riding out here.If your jock is on that horse it's coming down.

I had a win bet on Gomez and I can't beleive they didn't take him down.

I had the 6,and I knew I wasn't gunna get it.That guy would really have to do something horrible to get taken down out here right now.Just the way it is.If Espinoza did that,he would be DQ'D IN A HEARTBEAT.

I would bet the Stewards and Ron Anderson were looking at the replays together. Wonder what they were talking about?

G.G. always has a story.Just like Bailey.They come up with something,and sell it intellectually well.Stewards want to believe it to begin with. A lot of the other jocks get too loud cuz they are struggling to get the words to match their thoughts(like Espinoza....that guy loses a ton of those inquiries.) G.G.'S horse wasn't straight.2 horses went down.They can blame it on the guy who went down to the dirt,but that horse wasn't straight.They let it go.

I've watched the head-on 10 times,and this doesn't happen if Gomez doesn't come over on that horse.GO-GO thought this horse was gonna go outside,but the horse didn't.He is still right there,and Gomez comes over in front of him.That's simply a mistake by Gomez.He made an assumption.This horse is right there still in his spot,and he comes over on him,and the horse shys from him coming over on him.Garrett told them what? He thought the horse moved outside? The horse is in the spot.No matter what G.G. TOLD THEM,THIS HORSE IS IN THE SPOT,AND GO GO COMES over.He went out a lil,but he has stayed in that spot,and is straight.The winner comes over,and takes his path,because the rider made an error in thinking that horse was going outside.He is in a spot(running straight) and the winner comes right over and causes all that.I can't believe whatever load he fed them.It all took place very quickly,but he is to blame.He assumed incorrectly(like happens a lot)and they just let him off.He just wanted that spot,but it wasn't open.He thought it was gunna go differently.Should have come right down like anybody else who isn't clear when they move over.They going out of their way to bail him out of that.Wow,you could blame the trade center disaster on JARA,and people would believe it.

Vacation coming?

no doubt, most other jockeys would have come down.

No,they don't overlook horses going down(just because they weren't cost a placing.) They bought his bullshit.Jara's horse was a lil crazy,but the spill took place because Gomez took a horse's path.He guessed what this horse was gunna do.He was wrong.He didn't go outside.His path is taken,and he shys from it.I know what G.G. was thinking was gunna happen,but the horse is not outside when he comes over.If that was true,then the horse wouldn't have had to move outside and foul other horses.Fact is this horse beat Gomez to this spot,and HE TAKES THE PATH ANYWAYS.They just got it wrong.That's what happens with leading riders etc.Stewards just seem to buy their story.I don't get it,because the horse has beaten Gomez to this spot.He is saying the horse went outside,but the horse only went outside for an instant,and he is back in his spot when Gomez comes over.The thing I know is that every other jock (but this one ) would have been taken down.He gave them the story about the horse going outside,but it;'s crap.The horse is right beside him when he comes over.They have given him the right to come over on that horse.I don't think we will ever know why.The horse is not outside when Gomez comes over(he was guessing the horse would go outside.) It's a careless thing guys do when they badly want a spot.Obviously not his spot to take.

That sucks if it really is not about what happened but who did it...I had the 2 in that race from Miller and thought I was home free until it looked like someone hit the off switch after the spill.....It certainly did look like the 11 was guilty of a felony in the lane there.....even the 6/2 would have been nice for me oh well sometimes you just take it in the teeth....Maybe I'll call Maggie and see if she can make it right!!!

i had the six, so my only chance was if the 11 comes down, but i didn't hold out much hope for that. imagine if the riders were reversed, and it was Jara moving out on Gomez and he goes down trying to avoid Jara. does anyone really think Jara would stay up? lol
i also liked the 2 a lot but swtched to the 6 at the last moment. didn't matter in the end.

I'm not a Gomez fan and I had no interest in the race but you guys need to re-watch the head on. . . The horse Gomez collided with was running very erratically in the stretch and took a step outside right before GG swung wide, then came back inside and the two met in the middle. . . I wouldn't really put the blame on either rider. . . It was a proper no-call because Gomez's horse was much the best. . . Breakdowns are an unfortunate part of the game and nobody likes to see them but to blame Gomez for that is unreasonable. . .

I watched the head on several times, and I thought that Gomez went for a seam that wasn't completely there. He caused the other horse to lug out and then clip heels. I think it was a reckless move and any other jock in the colony (with exception to maybe Nakatani) would have been taken down and given days.

No,he beat him back to the lane.It's not 50/50....Sorry,but Jara's horse isn't doing anything wrong when Gomez comes over.He is back in his lane.Gomez was wanting his lane.So,his story is gunna be that the horse went outside,but the fact is that he is back in that lane when he comes over.It's not 50/50.Gomez is simply wrong this time.He guessed that he could take that spot,but he was beaten to the spot.All video will show he was beaten to this spot,and takes it anyways.Granted,it happened quickly,and it's an accident,but it wasn't Garrett's spot to take.It was close,but the facts are this horse had beaten him to this spot.GO GO assumed it was open.It wasn't.The horse simply beat him to the spot.It's on him.Not Jara.Jara didn't push his horse into GO GO'S.GO GO PUSHED HIS OVER IN FRONT OF JARA'S.
This was a situation of the leading jockey assuming what the least popular jock at the meet was gunna do.Then he tried to blame it on that unpopular jock,but G comes over on him.He is in a lane when it's taken by Garrett.It's really not a close call.It's a foul caused by an assumption.It's a bit of over-aggressive risk taking,and it's the reason those horses went down.

They can't ignore a foul that causes horses to go down.Well,lol,Until today..LOL....You're right they did ignore a foul that led to 2 horses going down.It's a poor idea.Now when guys do borderline cutoffs they can throw this up into the stewards faces,because this horse wouldn't have caused the horses to go down....unless Gomez takes his path.

the thing is it wasn't a breakdown, the horse clipped heels and went down only because of the quick way that Gomez came over. to my eye it was his agressive riding that triggered it. if you interfere with others i don't think it's supposed to matter one bit if the horse is much the best. obviously the stewards saw it differently but I think scuds point is to raise the question whether they would have made the same call if it wasn't Gomez. Lets say it was Kyla Stra and it was Gomez who went down. would they have still let the finish order stand? I think its highly unlikely. it does seem to matter who the characters are.

I'm not blaming Jara. . . His mount was zig-zagging all over the place while he was trying to switch leads (i think). . . He didn't really have much control over his horse which isn't really his fault because the horse was so green. . . But when a horse is running erratically like that I think it's hard to blame another jock if he runs in to him. . . If Gomez just swings wide and knocks another horse over who's travelling completely straight in his lane that's one thing, but he was trying to predict what an unruly animal was going to do at 30 mph and guessed wrong. . . but what was he supposed to do? He had horse and a chance to win so he went for what looked like an open seam. He wasn't pulling a Coa or anything. . . Plus, because of the way Jara's horse was running you could argue that he wasn't running in an established lane. . . Also, from what I could see, Jara's mount may have gotten spooked a bit by the contact and overreacted a little bit. . . A more experienced runner may not have gone down in that situation but you never know. . . Not that that really matters now- just an observation. . .

I didnt even see the race but Im sure Jara flopping around on top like he usually does didnt help matters. If I racereplay Ill be jockey bashing the rest of the night. He probably had his horse off balance, all over the track, couldnt pick the horse up, Im getting mad just thinking about him.

On another jockey bashing note Rene Douglas aboard Prom Shoes today was pretty brutal. He ducked to the rail and followed the only horse in the race that figured to back up right into his face. Nice move RD.

Maybe I'm not as keen to the dynamics of the CA jockey colony as some here, but I think it's very difficult and highly speculative to say that without some proof or examples of similar situations that resulted in different rulings by the stewards. If Jara was on the winner and Gomez was on the horse that went down and the ruling went for Gomez, I would say that it was an over-call in that case rather than an under-call in the actual situation we're discussing. . .

Calling Vic Stauffer:
 

Not to put you on the spot, but if you have any insight into this it would be greatly appreciated. . .

I have looked at this thing very slowly.I suggest you watch it as slowly as possible,because it becomes very obvious that these two horses were not fighting for a spot.Trust me,go back and watch it as slowly as possible,and you will see a pathetic no call.If you watch it anywhere near real time you will miss it.Go slow and you will see Gomez is stuck behind the horse (jock green silks.Jara's horse is right beside this horse with green silks.Another horse has the inner path blocked.Gomez is looking for a way out.This is at 54 seconds in.BTW,THIS STOPPER in green is a huge problem for all these horses.They are going fast,and he is really pedestrian.This is why such a quick decision was made by GOGO.He had to get out from behind the horse in green.Jara's horse is running o.k. ,BUT JARA'S HORSE,AND THE ONes outside of him have all got to go a lil wide out of the turn to avoid the horse in green(who is in the way.)Jara's horse is hit on the back right quarter by a horse outside of him.When this happens,you will see his white blinks pulled back to the center of the track.Jara is putting him back in the lane he went a lil wide from.At this point,he is dead center in his lane(but moving inward due to being hit in the back right.).)At this exact point(Gomez' horse moves out on him.)It seems that they make contact,or Jara has to pull him violently outside.This is in no way a an overreaction.Either he is being pushed outside by Garret's horse,or Jara is having to pull his head violently outside.This horse then crashes into a horse outside of him.There are 3 hard changes of direction that he makes.The horse simply gets pushed back n' forth in a very small amount of time.Gomez tried to use a seam that opened and closed very quickly.When he came over,the seam had closed,and Jara's horse had nothing to do,but shoot outside into the other horse.This was not an open lane.There is a horse there and it is forced into other horses.This all took place it a very short period of time,but one thing that's obvious is that this was a taken lane when Garret moves into it.He moved into it to it because he was gunna clip heels with the slow horse in green.BECAUSE OF THE SLOW HORSE IN GREEN,2 horses needed the same lane,but Jara's horse is there 1st,and Gomez moves into it(causing a violent change of direction for Jara's horse.)The lane opened and closed quickly.Gomez hoped it would be more than that,but it just wasn't.The biggest problem was Gomez moving into a lane that had openned and closed(very quickly.) This was not an open lane.There is a horse there.This is plain as day.Go slow as possible.There is a horse there,and that horse has to move to avoid BEING CRUSHED BY GARRET'S HORSE.SO,THAT'S WHY THE VIOLENT MOVE OUTSIDE ,AND THE ACCIDENT.Oh,I know for sure Garret is moving into a taken lane.Anybody(except the stewards) can see this if they slow it down enough.This is one replay head on that has to be played very slowly.A lot going on in short time.

I guess you can look at 2 ways. Because there was a spill, it turned out to be a reckless move. If there was no spill, it would have just been called a good agresive ride by Go-Go who got the best horse through and brought him home. I guess that there is a very fine line betwen agressive and reckless. My beef is more with the stewards. How can the justify leaving a horse/jockey up that contributed to a two horse spill?

Scuds-

How would you address the fact that Jara's horse was running so erratically?

THE HORSES outside of him tried to keep him from getting out.So,he was forced through a small space(between them and the slow horse in green.)All the horses outside of the green horse(slow horse )had to go wide to avoid him(coming out of the turn.)So,this horse is being forced to go through a small space while going wide.When they come into the top stretch,Jara's horse goes a lil wide,and the horse outside of him (at the same time) comes in.The have contact on Jara's horse(back right.)Of course Jara gets his lead going the opposite way(back into his lane.)So,when he does that,the lane had openned and closed(very quickly.) The problem is that Gomez was desperate to avoid the slow horse in Green.He decided to try for the seam that closed on him.The fact is that he came out of his lane,and hit a horse,or caused it to be forced outside violently.Jara's horse never took Gomez' lane.Not once.I know Gomez was wrong for taking that lane.It wasn't there,It closed.He is wrong to be there.The fact is that race riding on the turn,and a very slow obstacle horse, caused big problems.Gomez assumed too much. The horse outside him moved out a lil,and then came back into it's lane(before Gomez had time to go through the seam.)He tried it anyways.Caused accident.No matter how you dice it up,there is a horse in the lane,and he moved into it.It's on tape.He moves into this horse.They are wrong to ignore that.Now anybody can move into any small seem and knock horses over.That's really the way this is.They have nothing to say,because they allowed Gomez to foul a horse to take it's lane.It really is about this rider.They think so much of him that they ignore what is in front of them.He pushed Jara out of the way(jara never bothered him.)It's all about the leading rider(this is actually not unusual.)Like I said,I knew they wouldn't take this man down.

How can a horse establish a lane when he's veering in and out in the stretch? It's like in football- if a player's juggling the ball and then steps out of bounds, he didn't have possession. . .

Just exactly how many times must you be told that Gomez took his horse into another horse's path?I think a horse clipped his back legs,and then he gets away from that,and Gomez comes right in front of him and the horse gets his front heels clipped by the back legs of Gomez horse.That's why the horse basically falls down after Gomez does that.This protected rider came over on a horse who I think already had his back legs cut up.You know,I can tell you all night that other riders would get taken down for what Gomez did,but you're gunna believe wht you want.That horse was not out of control when Gomez came over and did that.That hole closed.Pretty fkn obvious it closed.When other riders try to go through holes that aren't open,then they get taken down.This guy comes over and takes a horse's path(and I think clips heels with him,) and all the sudden it is overlooked.Why do you think the horse crashed into the other horse,and fell? To me it's clipped hills .He didn't just cut him off.Could have killed horses and jocks,and you wan't him to be able to do it again? Prick,go back and look at the way this horse goes down after Gomez comes over.That's clipped heels.Now you're in favor of allowing a horse to come over and clip heels,and get away with it.Believe me,this is about the horse being an unpopular horse,(and jock) and the winner being ridden by the leading jock in the nation.I couldn't tell ya the last time he got taken down out here.Really,I only see him win them.This is a foul.He came out took a horse's lane,and clipped heels,and caused an accident.God forbide he be punished(LIKE ANY OTHER JOCK WOULD BE.)

USELESS....You can't admit a foul,and then YOU try to make excuses for committing one.You came over.It ain't 50/50..You came out.Took an occupied lane.Clipped heels,and caused an accident....No punishment for royalty.

Scuds-

Calm down. . . I think you're having a difficult time understanding what I'm saying. . . I'll go real slow for you. . .

ok. . .

here goes. . .

the horse hadn't established a lane because it wasn't running straight. . .

and i'm not arguing over the clipped heels thing. . . that's not the point

your arguments have been incoherent and this is obviously not getting anywhere because you have difficulty separating the relevant parts of the incident from the irrelevant parts. . . so let's just agree to disagree. . .

maybe you should go to stewards school. . . i'm sure they have a remedial class. . .

I would tend to agree with you that the Gomez horse probably should have come down. However, you have some of the facts wrong. Jara's horse did not clip heels with Gomez' horse. Jara's horse clipped heels with the #6 horse Dr Zaentz. It was the Gomez horse that caused the incident. He came out into Jara's path and caused the Jara horse to clip heels with Dr Zaentz.

I can't help somebody that wants to ignore a foul.I've given you a foul,and you've made an excuse for why the foul took place.When Gomez comes over ,there is a horse there.There would not have been the bad fall if Gomez hadn't come over.You're gunna attack the other horse for being where Gomez wanted to be.That's simply excuse making.The horse openned a hole(that was barely big enough) for an instant,but came right back in an closed the hole.This is not an open hole for Garrett to come over.You can be mad that it wasn't,but it wasn't.They are wrong for letting him come over on the horse.Like I said,this is going to change the way stewards have to do things now.They have chosen to make an exception,and allowed a rider to foul.Believe me they are gunna have this incident brought up all year,because they overlooked a guy taking a path away.He didn't think the horse was gunna be there.That's his thinking.Reality didn't match his thinking (this time.)The whole world doesn't have to do what Garrett thinks they should be doing.He shot to his right for a very short time,and got pulled back in.By then Garrett had decided he wanted his spot.So he fouls him.Horse beat Garrett to the spot.It happens.I am not gunna blame Garrett for doing something horrible,but this is a foul.I am putting blame on the stewards for having multiple outcomes for the same crime.There is no doubt in most players mind that their jock would have come down.It's special treatment for one guy that most people like.Simple as that.He doesn't lose many inquiries out here.

Hard to tell,but I think Jara's horse does take contact from Gomez horse.You would have to go very slow to see it,but his front legs seem to get caught with the winners back legs. There is a lot going on,but it was critical for Gomez to stay out of that lane.Jara's horse had already taken some kind of contact on his back right.That was the wrong time to force another quick change of direction on him.

The relevant part is that the lane was taken.That's pretty obvious that it wasn't open when he decided to move into it.99% of the time they are not gunna let a jock come into a lane when he isn't clear.This is the relevant part.You've decided to dip into the irrelevant stuff like whether he thought a horse would be there,or should be there.He thought he wouldn't be in the lane.It was a guess.It was a wrong guess.There was a horse there when he came over.Now,less professional riders are gunna start being more aggresive in their lane changes,and the stewards are going to regret this.

You're not denying that the Jara horse clipped heels with Dr Zaentz, are you? That's not even debatable.

Yes,Dr. Zaenth,and Jara's horse clipped hills.I just don't know if there was other contact.It's hard to tell how much contact took place between Jara's horse and the winner.I think Jara's horse got cut on the front left( by the back right hoof of the winner.) Hard to tell how much contact took place between Jara's horse,and the 5 horse(Dewey's whateva.) Blanc(on the 6)was not giving much room to the two horses inside of him.So,when Jara's horse went just a bit wide in top stretch,you will see Jara have to pull him back quickly into his lane.This is why Garret's assumption(that Jara was moving outside)was incorrect.He had no room outside.He had to quickly pull him back into his lane.When he did that,he got hit by THE WINNER TRYING TO TAKE A LANE THAT HAD ONLY OPENED FOR like half a second.It had quickly closed.Garrett told the stewards that Jara chose to go outside,and so he took his lane.Problem is he isn't outside when he comes over.He is in the same lane he was in when they entered the stretch.He simply isn't clear when he comes over.Granted,it all took place very quickly,and decisions had to be made very quickly.A foul did take place though,and without that foul,the Jara horse wouldn't have shot across to the back of Dr. Zaenth,and clipped hills.I have no idea why they let Gomez come over when not clear.I've never seen them ignore what he did there.He simply guessed at something,and was wrong.Jara's horse is dead center in his lane when Garrett comes over.He didn't think he was gunna be there,but he was wrong(cuz he guessed.) Then he blamed Jara for going outside.I mean the facts are that the horse came right back into his lane,and then was bothered big time by THE WINNER.THE SEEM CLOSED.LIKE 99% OF THE TIME THIS WOULD BE A D.Q. When you take a seem that closed? You usually get taken down....wasn't clear when moved over.Jara's horse beat Garret's horse to the spot Garrett had decided to take.There is zero way for Jara to know Gomez was coming over.