Stud fees...
 

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41319

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41303

Exchange Rate more than Point Given???

PG is pretty nice at $15k

Horse Chestnut at 5k looks like a bargain too

I have not had any but they seem to run. I liked him better at 10k naturally...

Can get you a racehorse but is a hard sell in the yearling or 2 yo market

supply and demand. PG not doing so well....

Surprised that Smarty Jones is still at 100k.

Didnt Baffert have Forsestry?

He is actually doing fine. He was the 4th leading 2nd crop stallion and is currently 6th on the 3rd crop list directly under none other than Exchange Rate. The problem was that his stud fee was unrealistically high to start considering his size and breeding. Also with the Prince getting killed, the TB Corp was mostly sold off along with a lot of good mares that may have been bred to him. They (3 Chimneys) knew they were in trouble from the start and aggressively marketed him to second tier mares on foal share agreements. He should have started at 40000 but he began at 125000 and has slid down from there. He also tends to get clunky looking horses which does not help either.

I'm surprised anyone would give that for him after seeing his yearlings

The few babies that I've seen of his haven't been all that impressive although they've been selling well. I guess it would be too early for his fee to drop now, but I'll be interested to see how fast his babies are.

So you're into the conspiracy, eh?

You know, I'm not certain, but I believe it's the 2nd season. The first year's crop normally goes for more inflated prices as it is highly anticipated.

They really did not sell well at all. Virtually all the weanling pinhooks lost money, in some cases big money. There were a ton of RNA's that had little interest and the 2nd highest selling colt at $600k was a phony sale as it was bought by his breeder. Very few people who paid 100k for his services made out well.

Strange circumstances + Middle East = conspiracy

You know better than I do... I only read into what Three Chimney's posted:

“Smarty Jones’ foals towered over the progeny by other 2006 first-crop sires with a median of $270,000 for eight sold, which is nearly $100,000 more than second-ranked Medaglia d’Oro’s strong median of $175,000 for 21 sold. By average price, Smarty Jones has a smaller but still substantial lead. His $275,625 average is nearly $60,00 higher than that of second-place Speightstown.”

In the same issue of MarketWatch, it was reported that the Second Leading North American Sire by 2006 Median Weanling price was Dynaformer with a median of $300,000 for five sold and the Third Leading Sire by Median was Smarty Jones with eight sold for a median of $270,000. Next closest were Empire Maker ($220,000 median) and Elusive Quality ($210,000 median).

It is mostly just BS. MDO was probably the biggest surprise. He had a lot of nice horses

For bargain basement, the Durings I saw at the sale looked very good.

As for Smarty Jones, I may have been his biggest fan on track. Seriously. But his yearlings have been just so-so looking, then again he was rather plucky looking... until they opened the gates.

Point Given may end up like Pleasant Tap, ignored because his offspring take time to mature. Think the same thing will happen with Rock Hard Ten.

Baffert made his name mostly with moderately bred horses, so most of his top colts were not really expected to be top stallions. While he's hardly "elite" Indian Charlie has hardly disgraced himself and poor homely Real Quiet has several G1 winners even though he's now in Pennsylvania.


With rare exception the sales establish the stud fee far more that actual racing performance. PG has not lived up to the expectations of many but he's hardly a disaster. His current fee is about right because "saleswise" his HAS been a disaster. Unless a stallion jumps out very fast and continues to build on that success, like Distorted Humor, any give stallion is likely to see his fee decrease by season 3. The other "non sales" exception is a breakout season like the one Smart Strike has had this year.

And also "my" boy Pleasantly Perfect. I really think he will be a nice stud, if his colts are given time to mature. 'Course I am prejudiced, I just love the big guy. :D

Point Given obviously hasn't been a big hit as a sire, but it is hard to believe that he is going to be standing for $15,000 while Eddington stands for $20,000.
I think I'd send a mare to Point Given over Eddington any day.

indian charlie has been a phenom at stud, considering the incredible lack of quality he's gotten in the mares sent to him.

at least 75% of the mares sent to him in his first 3 crops were either unraced or never won a race. very few stallions have moved up mares (according to that index number that is used for that purpose) as well as IC has.

interestingly enough, the last time i really looked into stallions that dramatically moved up their mares, distorted humor blew away everyone, by a large margin.

another baffert runner that's making a good name for himself is vindication. it's still early though, so who knows.

real quiet, as previously mentioned, gets the occasional really nice runner.

el corredor has been useful!

just seems the perception is that he's not doing well.

maybe i should have said not as successful as many hoped.

described mr greeleys jump in stud fee before this season. altho he has had some runners, i remember them saying the sales results were why they went up on him.

Eddington is areally nice colt and getting Unbridled up close is less available then Mr P blood. Even the super plodder Saarland sold well

this doesn't make much sense....
unbridled is by fappiano who is by Mr. P....which is closer than PG who is by T. Gulch who is by Gulch who is by Mr. P

and other sons of unbridled in KY include (and I am sure I have missed a couple)....
the big 2: unbridled's Song and Empire Maker
the rest: Malabar Gold, Saarland, Broken Vow, Anees, Mustanfar....and isn't Harlington around somewhere?

and Regional studs include....
Red Bullet fl
Wheelaway NY
Unbridled Jet MD
Unbridled Vision CO


he's not exactly unavailable in the bluegrass....

Eddington stands for more than Point Given because he unproven as yet....with PG you know what you are getting and his yearlings are generally not that spectacular looking....Eddington should have a sales edge on him in that regard.

now why would you go and say something that makes sense? have you no sense of fun?

Smarty Jones is still $100K because that is what he can fetch. The market is completely set by what they get book and they can fill his book at $100K. They don't just randomly stick with numbers or drop or raise fees. They send out their feelers and then they set a price. PG has dropped because they just weren't going to get the $30K fee that he had. Smarty Jones is staying at $100K because they can still get it. Simple as that.

i thought they just used a dartboard myself.

i think the intent of the original question about how smarty jones can still be at 100k was more to ponder how people are willing to pay that price, not that the syndicate/farm would charge 100k if people are willing to pay it.

that's probably just another guess on my part though.

Correctimundo.

Smarty Jones is going to be a big time stallion and from the 5 or 6 that I looked at they looked OK. He wasn't the hottest looking colt ever either.

With the book of mares he is getting, he has every chance to be.

Why do you think he's going to be a big time stallion? Any particular reason?

i'll be surprised if smarty makes it as a big time stallion. they say one in 10 makes it, but i wouldn't be surprised if it got tougher than that. too many top sires, not enough top mares to go around.

Distorted Humor's CI compared with his AEI has consistently been off the chain. Elusive Quality was also in the same boat for awhile, as was Northern Afleet, but I suppose that is what you get when you have two horses the caliber of Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex in your first few crops.