Barclay Tagg's comments on NoBiz
 

“The problem with the Mile is that even if he wins he won't get the accolades he deserves,” said trainer Barclay Tagg. “English Channel or whoever wins the Breeders' Cup Turf will probably be voted turf champion, and he's not going to be three-year-old champion, so what does he really have to gain by running in the Mile?”

making excuses or does he have valid point..

does anybody actually care who wins the Eclipse awards? If he wins the BC Mile that's accolades enough!!

The problem is he isn't fast enough to win the BC Mile.

Thought he looked great Sat, but brushing off the BC Mile seems extreme..

He has not faced G1 company on the Grass yet, correct?

No comment.

He's right. No need for a grueling race if there is nothing on the line. Yeah you can say it's still money to win....but he can pick up some easy money and a graded stakes at Hollywood Park next month.

Actually I do have a comment.

Looking at John Henry's PPs just magnifies how pathetic the owners and trainers of today are. They should be ashamed to call themselves horsemen.

Is PointGiven1985 ghostwriting for Haskin these days?

I think Shakespeare would crush him as would After Market and Crossing the Line, I don't think he could even beat Out of Control, Tagg is getting a bit ahead of himself if he thinks he had that race in the bag.

No Biz wouldnt even hit the board in the Mile. I dont mind Tagg skipping the Mile. I think it would be a silly attempt. Like others have said, there are softer spots and plenty of money to earn

where arm meets chair
 

he isn't a miler

I wouldn't enter someone just for the sake of saying he was running on the big day. Then again my last name isn't Valando or Tagg.


:cool:

Just to put things in perspective, Tagg skipped the Mile with Showing Up off a similar campaign and he would have rated at least TWICE the chance of Nobiz in the Mile.

Tagg doesn't either. That's one of the many things that makes him a great trainer/horseman.

$1200000 winners purse

Tough ****, Barclay. YOU made the decision to run him on dirt half the year as well as the decision to run him against strictly three-year-olds all season, making him all but ineligible for any grass or three-year-old honors. And now instead of going in the BCM, where, with a good showing, he would actually start to deserve and receive some of the "accolades" you think people are denying him, you're going elsewhere. Either run him or don't, but don't make it seem like people are shortchanging the horse.

i think barclay tagg is underestimating the astuteness of many racing fans, who give most winners their due when they win a big one.

what he meant to say was i'm looking for softer competition than what he would face in the mile, and we will pad his resume and wallet against lesser horses than what he would face at monmouth.

Does anyone remember who won the Eclipse award last year? It was an unheralded longshot in the MIle named Miesque's Approval. If Nobiz were to win the race and some crazy longshot won the Turf, he absolutely could be named champion. Tagg did the same thing last year with Showing Up. Just baffling.

Paul

While I won't attempt to decipher what exactly Barclay Tagg said or meant because deciphering "trainerspeak" is more difficult than reading Nietzsche, I think the assumptions that Tagg is skipping the Mile because he is afraid of the competition he may face are a tad faulty.

Nobiz beat the hell out of a good group of horses on Saturday, specifically Red Giant who had enjoyed a PERFECT trip. He rolled by RG, and showed a terrific new dimension, which was to rate well off the pace and finish strongly.

Maybe I'm alone in thinking that the Jamaica was a far, far better performance than we had ever seen from Nobiz. That being said, I'm not Barclay Tagg and am also not privy to his thoughts, so I don't know why he's not running in the Mile.

NT

Joe,

That's not entirely fair to Tagg who received unending meddling from Mrs. Valando who reportedly was driving him nuts. He told Haskin way back that he wanted to get Nobiz on the grass but she insisted on a Classics course. If it's up to Tagg, he'd probably run everything in the barn on the lawn!

to say however that one is skipping a race because if the horse wins he won't get recognition imo is bullshit. i can think of about a million bucks worth of recognition he'd get. so, it's something else. so, what would that be? probably the same thing that drives many to avoid the top fields, fear of losing. or realizing that altho his horse might win a turf race, that in no way translates to winning a mile race on turf, or a 12f on turf, which isn't fear of losing, but recognizing that the chances of a win are somewhere between slim and no.

Good to know, but I still think playing the whole "there's nothing to win, because he's underappreciated" spiel is weak. Either go or don't, but don't act like some uncontrollable factor is keeping you out of the race. Also, in regard to his somewhat slighting remark about English Channel, why didn't Tagg put Nobiz in the Hirsch? Surely if NLS beat EC there, he'd have more of a claim for the male turf Eclipse than he does now. Tagg chose to keep him facing three-year-olds and now he's whining about how a horse that was there for the beating might get the Eclipse over him.

no way he should have been that long a shot...:D and the horse was a great story ...

And a great payoff!:)

I think Miesque's Approval had a better resume going into the BC than Nobiz does. Nobiz should have to win the BC Mile and the Hollywood Derby to get serious consideration.

i think hes smart not to run..the euros will most likely bring a ringer..and english channel loves mon.. though i will try to beatem at the windows.e.c

Artie Schiller. And Gorella. And Megahertz. And.....well, I think the point is clear.

Kind of hard to talk sense with a mouth full of owner in it. Tagg has to speak to the uninformed everyday, this day is no different.

Artie Schiller had an excellent turn of foot....but remember his most impressive races were against the 3YO's of 2004 (set the track record in the Jamaica, and looked equally as impressive as Nobiz doing it). He had an excellent 4YO season, but he didn't beat up on the competition like he did as a 3YO. If you throw out his 2004 Breeders cup, where he had a disastrous trip clipping heels and getting stuck behind a wall, he never ran a bad race.

The point I am trying to make is that when you face older horses, it is a whole new ball game. Look at showing up last year in the Man O' War. He ran a good race, but was not ready for that competition. Im sure Tagg feels that he probably won't win the mile, but has a good shot at it next year with a healthy horse, and probably can get an easy GI win at Hollywood just like he did with Showing Up last year.

What happened with Showing Up last year (a horse that I think would have had a huge shot in the Mile) illustrates that you often need to strike while the iron's hot. Tagg said that he didn't want to run a 3YO against his elders and would wait to his 4YO season to take a shot at the BC. Then, Showing Up gets hurt in 2007, and he misses a chance to win a Cup race in both years. It's hard enough getting a horse to a race 12 days from now, let alone 12 months from now.

I also think that at this time of year a good 3YO can certainly beat their elders. In the past few weeks, we've seen it done by Curlin, Hard Spun, Panty Raid and Idiot Proof, and the BC Mile is full of 3YO winners. War Chant, Lure, Six Perfections, Ridgewood Pearl and Miesque (the last three of whom were 3YO fillies) come to mind off the top of my head. I'm not saying that NoBiz is in their league, but the notion that we shouldn't run because he's only a 3YO makes little sense to me. (If he's just ducking the race because he knows his horse would not be competitive there, that's another story, but then don't complain that the horse is underappreciated.)

Artie was one of my personal favorites, but man did he have bad luck in photo finishes!

There's about a 0% chance of it happening, but let's cross our fingers that Showing Up comes back from injury 100%. That is one nice horse when right. I don't think people realize how good his Lexington-Derby-Cnl Turf Cup was off of TWO career starts prior.

Three year old turf horse is one of the few cases that it can make some sense to skip the BC since you have the Hollywood Derby as an option. Of course it would be great to see Nobiz go in both but that is a lot to ask under the modern day "fresh horse" training practices.

Tagg should run him in the Classic. The horse is coming into his own right now and he'd have a legit shot. He was too immature back in the spring and finally is maturing. If he doesnt run well he can point him towards a turf campaign next year. Winning the Hollywood derby isnt going to do much for his stallion prospects since he's by Albert the Great so missing that race wouldnt be that big of a deal.

Hard to take him seriously when he implies English Channel is the most likely winner of the Turf.

I don't think running him in the classic would make a lot of sense. I don't think he would have a "legit shot."
As for the larger question, Tagg seems to be one of the few trainers that simply refuses to let the stupid Breeders' Cup dictate everything he is going to do with a good horse. For that I applaud him. He didn't send Funny Cide to the Juvy in '02. Showing Up last year. Now Nobiz. Unlike a lot of these other morons that treat the rest of the year like it is only some series of preps for the BC, Tagg seems to view the Breeders' Cup races as just some more G1 races. Frankly, I agree with him.

Because he's by Albert the Great, who's by Go For Gin-not the most fashionable stallion line. If he were by Storm Cat, Street Sense, A.P. Indy, Dynaformer, Gone West etc.....then it would be a big benefit. Same thing is true for Showing Up. Yes he's obviously better on the turf, I agree, but this year's Classic is a great spot for him to take a shot back on the dirt. He'd be 20-1 and would have a great shot. I think thats why Tagg was saying if he wins the BC Mile he still wouldnt be top 3yo maybe hinting to the owner that they should take a chance in the Classic. Winning the Classic would add a alot of appeal to him as a stallion prospect.

It's easy to see the appeal of the BC Mile considering both the weak field and NoBiz's terrific performance this weekend, however Tagg is pretty conservative, and considering his success level it seems more than unfair to suggest that any of us know better than he. From a fan's standpoint obviously we wish NoBiz was in the mile but I will defer to the judgement of someone who clearly knows better than any of us.

Running him in the Classic makes little to no sense. He's already proven to be vastly inferior to the competition he would face in that race. Perhaps next year if the handicap division is weak Tagg could conceivably take a shot on the dirt again during the year but my guess is once he races a horse successfully on the grass he is loathe to switch surfaces. Unlike Showing Up, who had feet issues which kept him on the grass, NoBiz could at least physically make the switch. Perhaps Chuck can answer this but it is my understanding that trainers usually don't like moving from one surface to another especially after establishing success on one.

As far as a Grade 1 on the turf increasing his value, well he already has a Grade 1 on the dirt, so I suppose this is possible, but I'm sure he will have ample opportunity to do so in the future without this year's BC Mile. Not only is the Hollywood Derby a Grade 1 but next year may look like a Grade 1 tree of ripe fruits if it's anything like 2007.

hey andy, while you are doing that video with drugS, ask him what he thinks about putting slobiz back on the dirt. he'll give you a 2 hour earful why he thinks that he'll be a star when he's moved back to dirt! Seriously!

I intend to not give DrugS a lot of rope to hang himself.