Hollywood Gold Cup
 

It would appear that Lave Man lost some luster today. I know most of you don't think the weights make a differance, but at 1 1/4 mile I think it does. It looks like Lava Man really doesn't want a mile and a quarter. Think we will have a bigger field in the Pacific Classic?

A mixed bag really...on the one hand, Lava Man clearly struggled in the stretch, the entire race fell apart really just as Jerry Bailey said. On the other hand, the grit and determination he displayed is what separates a champion from other horses...the old saying applies here..."the good ones win the close ones and they overcome trouble to do so!" Lava Man clearly stumbled coming out of the gate, PVal cut him off in the first turn (legally), he overcame a lot today and found a way to win...still, that last quarter makes you wonder....

Completely agree ... Lava Man wasn't terrific today ... but he did what he had to do ... and the ten pound weight pull does make some kind of difference at 10f.

He ran just an OK race ... but still won. I wouldn't bet him in the BC Classic future book though.

I don't know if I would say that he "lost some luster." He stumbled out of the gate in a G1 race in which he was carrying top weight and in which he was running on dirt for the first time in awhile. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, but he still won.
I would not have bet him to win the Classic before this race OR after the race. I am just not sure you can win a G1 and lose luster.

That field was a disaster. lava is fast becoming a legend with his heart and incredible determination. How can you not love this horses heart? But as far as him coming east later on this year to face horse like invasor or Flower Alley, forget it, no way. If you have to struggle to beat Ace Blue in a nose Bob on your home track, well, I mean its kind of hard to imagine that translating to anything when he comes east.

Detention barn probably didn't help LM much either. So he had a lot going against him and still gritted out the win. Gotta love the effort. But count me as one of the doubters when the competition steps up a bit.

You know, if this race were in a vacuum or we just didn't see much of LM, I'd say the jury is out on this horse, but that stumble set my heart racing. It wasn't little. My heart pumped all the way through. Plenty of "good" horses or even champions would have lost, but he stuck it out. It wasn't pretty. I doubt if it was, in form, even good. But he got 'er done, as they say. With the early fractions being really paltry, the lead should have been able to do it. I was most impressed with Ace Blue. In my short time watching racing, when a quarter and the half are that slow, usually, I see the front runner steal it easy. So, all in all, taking in his turf races too, this is a helluva horse. I think maybe it is true, that turf is his real milieu. Which, in a way, makes all these dirt races even better. Also, we know he isn't good with heat. I don't know, looked like a damned dog fight to me. Not pretty, not dazzling, but down, dirty and another notch on the belt. Isn't this a good reason to watch this horse?

Another Grade I win for Lava Man--what else do you want the horse to do?

Hey, I have no beef with him. I love this horse. Did my post indicate something else? If so, it was just bad writing.

I dont think I meant to quote you--sorry.

What the hell the horse was close to his knees... He got taken wide around the first turn by Magnum and found himself in a position he is not used to. Then he got sent too early and the damn horse still won. He had every reason to lose that race. A winner. I dont know how the heck he does in the future but that was the race of a winner.

Horse is a heck of an athlete to regain his footing so quickly. That was a hell of a tough win.

I know it seems very minor,but I'd give this horse 35-40 days off between races(not the 28 he had going into today's race.)

Oh i agree. I guess they are going to the Pacific Classic. Not sure when that is, but it has to be his next race.

I've never given Lava Man the credit he deserves and have always thought he was a little overated. He changed my mind after this last race. I thought it was very impressive. After stumbling badly and being forced to rate third, he still showed enough heart to squeeze out a victory. He would have had a legit excuse if he didn't run a lick. I still think he would be better served staying on the West Coast but I'm a bigger fan of his after this victory.

Hey hes become a legend. My favorite horses are the ones who try like hell to win no matter what the obstacles. hes a dead game dude, and I love him. But even with the stumble he beat Ace Blue by a 1/16th of an inch. I'm thinking he may find Invasor and Flower Alley just a "tad" tougher, especially out of the friendly confines of California.

Guess I'm still having a tough time thinking of Flower Alley as an intimidating force, Invasor is good right now but at Churchill in November??? Long way to go and the Pacific Classic could be another tough race but then the others will be tested also...right now, I'd play Lava Man if the race were today...he reminds me of Tiznow with that heart and Tiznow did "OK" in the BCC as I recall despite his doubters!

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday, he actually races. His schedule is out there for all to see, if he's so bad why not come out and challenge him? Lava Man is as good as anyone right now, Flower Alley has done nothing to make me place him higher than he is, Flower Alley is having a pussified schedule of hand-picking late in the year races ,while Lava Man is in the trenches on both surfaces slugging it out and winning Grade 1's, not hiding in the barn.

I believe Invasor is coming out there to challenge him in the next one. Flower Alley seems to like Saratoga and has two races for him there. The BC Classic will decide it all but I wouldn't count out Bernardini.

I'll take a horse like Lava Man over the over-rated Flower Alley anyday

I agree 100%. While Lava Man may not have beaten the best grade 1 fields out there, he hasnt ducked a single horse and his schedule has been made very clear. Those with the traditional East Coast bias are welcome to send thir horses out West to take him on before the BC, but have chose not to. The mighty Seek Gold sure looked great on Saturday! LOL!

Lava Man has won 3 grade 1's (winning on both surfaces) plus 2 other races while the only thing Flower Alley has done is beat Gold and Roses in a listless glorified NJ allowance race.

Sure Flower Alley is top notch but it doesnt do the fans any good keeping their favorite horses in their barns. We've seen Flower Alley once in 9 months, while Lava Man has run 5 times in that timeframe. You tell me if this is even a contest right now?

Do you really think Seek Gold is a top east coast horse?

I thought it was cool that he won the Stephen Foster, but I don't think he's close to a Top Older horse...

The HOY is not won in the early part of the year, may not be right, but that's the way it is, besides Lava Man's a Gelding, he has to earn on the track, what do you think Flower Alley will make with track and stud fees, alot more than Lava Man, so I would definetely rather own him...

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle, the fans out here love him, he looked real tired but it was a miserably hot day, he has those eyes that just look at everyone around, he knew he won and was proud. It's great to see a horse the fans can cheer for, he's becoming a real legend out here, all the sports pages had an article on him.

Now isn't that a horse we want to be HOY? I am cheering for him. He ran a game race to a horse carrying a lot less weight than him. So far he has my vote for HOY considering he has run all year. Not to say that my mind may change later on about this, but for now Lava Man is on the top of my list for HOY.

I'm not talking about owning a stallion over owning a gelding, I'm talking about the respective horses and Lava Man would make me a hell of a lot prouder to own than Flower Alley, and even if I was looking for a stallion prospect it sure as hell woudn't be Flower Alley.

I think anybody on this board would take ownership in just about any horse, and I didnt think we were arguing who would be a better horse to own. Obviously with the money that comes out of breeding any horse with a functioning pecker would be a better own than a gelding.

The older horse division is so weak this year that Seek Gold was able to win one of the premier older horse events in the Stephen Foster and horses like Invasor are looking like Skip Away. So sure, I would consider Seek Gold one of the top horses and he went out West and got whacked.

The HOY may not be won in the first half of the year but if Lava Man wins his next 2 races that would give him 4 grade ones for the year and that is very hard to topple, unless Flower Alley wins the Classic. Hes the only horse on the East Coast who impresses me but its hard to get excited about a horse who runs once in 9 months.

Gander, you should have heard the cheers Lava Man received when he returned to the Winners Circle,

Would have given me goosebumps.

And as good as Flower Alley is, he'll never win the hearts of fans like Lava Man has and will continue to do. He reminds me of a less talented Ghostzapper. Sure you can say "wow, what a nice horse", but nobody is ever going to remember him for having a huge heart nor will he be a fan favorite.

I thought FA was very gutty in the Breeders Cup...

That was last year though. Not saying he isn't a good horse.

But as the song goes "what have you done for me lately?"

I like Flower Alley. He is a good horse. What I think is going to happen in the BCC if Lava Man and Flower Alley go is that you are going to see a fresh horses vs a tired battled weary horse. I dont think it is going to be a fair match. Flower Alley finish ahead of Lava Man on BCC. If they were to face each other in August at some other track other than a Cali or east coast track I would take Lava Man. But come Nov, Flower Alley will be fresh and Lava Man will be tired. Advatage Flower Alley.

Flower Alley gets a huge advantage of two big races Whitney and Woodward over his racetrack, Saratoga.

Of course the fresher horse will have the advantage. Not doubting his talent, its there. But he will never capture the hearts of fans the way this reformed claimer Lava Man has. Hes just one of the many exceptional horses the Silver Fox trains. He will be forgotten. Lava Man wont. We'll still be talking about him 10 years from now. Heck he may even still be racing :eek:

This could all be a moot point if Bernardini is what many think he is. He might just destroy both of them.

I have no problem with them giving the horse a break, FA raced 10 times entering this year. They're animals not machines, and he earned a break in my opinion.

When is Bernardini scheduled to run next? Haskell? Travers?

Seems hard to know what to think of him yet -- he beat a battered Bro Derek, a tired SNS, and a lot of others who weren't all that impressive. I'm not saying he's not good, just that he hasn't faced much tougher competition than anyone else yet, imho. Hard to say if he can stack up against Lava Man, let alone Flower Alley if he's fit and ready.

But I'm with Gander: Lava Man is great for the sport. His dirt+turf wins alone make a good argument for HOY to me.

Jim Dandy on July 29. Prep for Travers. I think Jazil is going the other route.

Thanks much!

If he can keep this up, he has got my vote too without a doubt. I LOVE this horse. I was SCREAMING for him at the OTB this weekend. When he stumbled out of the gate like that, carrying that much weight, I told my mom that if he won he was a great horse. He won and in my eyes he is a great horse. This horse had more heart than the rest of the field combined. He has displayed enormous versatility in his running styles and on the different surfaces he runs and his courage leaves me in awe. He was an underdog who worked his way to the top the hard way. He isn't a blueblood, he is just a horse who loves to run and win. How can you not root for this guy?

I gotta see this horse do something outside of CA. Until he does that, to me, he's a very good west coast horse. Not a great horse. The JCGC was just pitiful. Maybe he was off form, or maybe he can't do anything on a real racetrack.

O'neill has done a great job with this horse. But he's (Lava Man) got to learn to ship well so that he can perform outside of Cali. If he can do that then he'll really be the goods...until then poeple will always knock him as a california specialist.

You're right I think Lava Man has hit the top of his form cycle after the Gold Cup. Lava Man is a great horse , but we don't see many that hold their form like Cigar. Give him time away from the track and find a turf race for him just before the Sunshine Million in Febuary 07 and do it all again.

He's got to do something outside of California? The horse has won 2 Million dollar races, a 750,000 and 2 other graded races this year. I don't think he really needs to leave town. I still say if he is so weak why would the good horses race in the rast of the country for less?