Lies & Lying Liars that tell them
 

There can be no sadder figure in the NY franchise scenario than hapless Jeff Perle... His parade of lies and mistatements from the start of the franchise battle have been laughable, and he tried to slip another past in Newsday:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/na...ghtrail-flashy

When Spitzer took office on Jan. 1, "there was no part of New York State government that needed change more desperately than NYRA and racing. Not only were they indicted, but then they went bankrupt," said Jeffrey Perlee, chief executive of Empire Racing --

This above highlighted section is yet another of Perle's desperate, pathetic, multi-facetted lies.

1.) NYRA is NOT, never was, and never will be PART OF NEW YORK STATE GOVERNMENT. Perle has tried to perpetuate this fallacy in an attempt to goad the public into thinking that NYRA is beholden to them as a public trust of some kind. It isn't and wasn't...

2.) "When Spitzer took office on Jan. 1", the federal deferred prosecution indictment against NYRA had been dropped, with NYRA having satisfied the government's requirements for it to be dropped...

3.) NYRA's filing for protection was a clever defensive posture in their land claim with the state, and came only when NY Governor Geo. Pataki conspired to withhold a portion of the $30 million advance the state had agreed to give NYRA. That advance was necessitated by the Pataki administration's conspiratorial efforts to hold off construction of the Aqueduct slot parlor to guarantee their ability to crony in Pataki's own choice(s) for the franchise...

Sad and desperate... Jeff Perle.


Also joining in on the frivolity, Andrew Goodell of Capital Play:

Andrew Goodell of Capital Play, another of the companies bidding and one of whose partners helps run the Melbourne Cup, disagreed. "The difference between us and NYRA is our attendance numbers go up and theirs go down. Our revenue has doubled in the last five years, while NYRA has gone into bankruptcy," he said.

Whoa... hold on there, mate! There's a few differences between you and NY racing! Mr. Goodell fails to mention that Australia is blessed with one (1).. count it, one, OTB/tote company.. the government's TAB. Let's see Capital Play's revenue stream after they grapple with NY's odious OTB corporations that have had a stranglehold on NYRA's profitability opportunity for 30 years..

And Jeff and Andy... one more thing. NYRA's a non-profit corporation... You ain't, are you? BOTH these entities that are telling us how much they're going to do for NY racing keep failing to tell you how... INCREASED TAKEOUT.. And INCREASED ADMISSION/TICKET PRICES.. There's a formula that will raise all boats, eh?

Thanks for the giggles boys.. I have a suggestion though. Call Magna Entertainment in Toronto. They have some racetracks that you might be interested in!

i couldn't agree with you more. the only reason these people want nyra out is theres something in it for them. we will be at the mercy of some corporate set up that answers to stockholders. does anyone really think as bettors we will get more value.

I love it Steve! Get after them!

Although it's not a quick or convenient trip for me to NY, I've visited Aqueduct and Saratoga, and have been to Belmont many times, and almost always (Smarty's Belmont was a bit too crowded for my taste) had a good experience.

As to who is the most bettor-friendly, the proof is in the pudding. Lowest takeout on the east coast, and the NYRA has held the line on admission pricing, even for the big days like Belmont Day and when they hosted the Breeders Cup. This point was painfully brought home to me this year when I shelled out for a couple of tickets to see the BC at Monmouth.

At least as far as the bottom line for us common folk, I've got to believe that any other entity running the NY tracks will be bad news.

This article from bloodhorse lays out the financial woes of Magna. Doesn't seem this company, a part of Empire, should qualify to run any part of NY racing based on their performance. And as a result, Empire as a whole should be dismissed. This has gotten political real quick since Gov. Sptizer set out his blue print for NYRA to continue to run NY racing.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=40771

I wonder how much money has been spent by the various bidders trying to "influence" Albany lawmakers. I'd like to see the Gov. of NYS continue to lead this process, not some of the political hacks in the NYS Senate.

Sounds like the original poster has some connections to NYRA?

Defend them all you want but the facts are that NYRA went bankrupt and NYRA has been indicted.

As a writer, which you are, you need to learn how to read words correctly.

Perhaps you should take out a dictionary and learn the meaning of the words WERE and WENT.

Pretty sloppy calling somebody a Liar when what they are stating is 100% factually correct. The only error is saying that NYRA is part of the government. And that isn't lying, that is just incompetence. So maybe he doesn't qualify to be running racing in NY, but his incompetence does make me think he would make a good member of the NYRA gate crew. LOL

Please stick to facts and stop with the cheerleading.

Perhaps you have an interest in seeing NYRA keep the franchise?

The Gov has cited NYRA as the new franchise holder. Why should hacks be allowed to alter that ? How much money has Bruno's son been paid to lobby for Empire ?

And do you THINK that these slot driven groups can do any better with the "on track" race product? I THINK NOT! I just "so called" horseplayers that think these groups can think anyone can do better than NYRA. New York racing is the BEST in the country.....why "F" with! Facts are NYRA has straighten up thier act, I want GOOD racing and can less about the VLTS. Trouble is...you guys believe everything you see in print. Do me a favor...DON'T PLAY if it's that troubling to you! :mad:

I do have an interest in seeing NYRA keep the franchise and I make no apologies about doing so.. In addition, I don't want take out increased as Capital Play and Empire BOTH outlined in their proposals to the state as part of their 'innovative' approaches.

And as a side note, until some else pays the bills at this website, I'll cheerlead all I want..

Go Steve! :) Just wonder what these people think how much better it would be with these groups who know NOTHING about thoroughbred racing running racing in the Empire State. :rolleyes:

The title of this topic is: Lies & Lying Liars that tell them

Please explain to me what was the lie that Mr. Goodell stated in your first post.

Also joining in on the frivolity, Andrew Goodell of Capital Play:

Andrew Goodell of Capital Play, another of the companies bidding and one of whose partners helps run the Melbourne Cup, disagreed. "The difference between us and NYRA is our attendance numbers go up and theirs go down. Our revenue has doubled in the last five years, while NYRA has gone into bankruptcy," he said.


I cant argue with you on Mr. Perle's statement.

And do they race year round in Australia ? I think the Saratoga numbers have been pretty good the last 20 years.

Meanwhile, racing in your state has been booming :rolleyes:

I can't believe Australian Racing and New York Racing are even being mentioned in the same topic. I can't say I've ever bet on a f'ing Kangaroo before. Ask ole Perlee how much money he's pumped into Bruno's pockets.
Joe Bruno is a freaking crook and that's why this thing is being held up. And guess what BENEVELOUS?? Who gives a rats ass about what you have to say about his topic to begin with.

Saratoga is a 6 week meet. The other 46 weeks make up NYRA too.

They do have racing year round in Australia? yes.

As for my state having problems, yes California does have problems but that is not the topic on hand, and not my question to Kasept.

By the way, the 7500 who came out this past weekend to see RTR was not something I would be proud of if I were in charge of NYRA.

And will these two other groups make things better at N.Y. tracks??? Or is thier main objective to get the state more money through VLTS...what do they know about running a thoroughbred meet...in this country?

Just for the record...NYRA was indicted for looking the other way when TELLERS (not NYRA management) were shorting their tills and taking "loans". While I will never condone the behavior of Kenny Noe, Barry Schwartz or Terry Meycocks nothing they did would have brought the wrath of the Avenging AG Eliot Spitzer upon them were he not running for governor. NYRA became a very easy target for everyone to pile on. Charlie Hayward and Steve Duncker have done a tremendous job righting the ship.

As for being bankruptcy....Steve points out that that was engineered by NYRA to bring about a quick ruling on the land ownership issue. It is my opinion that if they did not do this the political wrangling would still be going on. Also mention that the Lottery Divisions refusal to sign off on the VLTs caused a tremendous financial hardship on NYRA.

While I'm venting I'd like to mention that Jeff Perle and Richard Bomze make me want to puke. They are both one very unfunny joke that "represents" NY horsemen. hahaha

I'm not sure, Hoff. I do know that major improvements in customer service need to be made throughout the industry in order for it to survive. It just boggles the mind how free admission and parking seems to be a cuss word to track management. Simple changes like that would make a world of difference in bringing fans back to the track.

Magna
I guess the results for Remington 2006 and SA 2007 dont count?

CD
Arlington just released plus numbers for 2007


As for NYRA--a Chimp could run Saratoga and do great. What exactly do they do the other 46 weeks that everyone loves them?

But again, that is off topic and off from my question.

While NYRA has had it's share of issues over the years anyone who thinks that Empire , Capital Play, or Excelsior would be a move in the right direction just has no real grasp of the situation. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is hard for me to see how anyone other than NYRA being in charge of NY racing would be a positive move for the racing fan or bettor. The only reason that those other operations are interested in the franchise is the VLT's and they pretty much make no bones about it. While NYRA's customer service and employees have traditionally been a sore subject, they are hamstrung by many obscure state laws that prohibit them from offering free anything and have made an effort to improve customer relations.

As for the bankruptcy, if you have flown on a major US carrier in the last 20 years or so there is a good chance your life was held in the balance by a company that had declared some form of bankruptcy.

Magna is a failing company and Churchill is downsizing. Excelsior has changed partners more often than Magna presidents resign. Capital Play wants to erect a fence around Saratoga. Great alternatives.

:D :D :D

How many millions has Frankie S. and Magna lost this fiscal quarter?

How's Gulfstream after the wonderful changes he made to the place?

and

Free admission? If you can't pay the $3 to get into the Spa, then go sit next to stinky old bastard with no teef at the local OTB.

Actually you are incorrect - his statement is a lie..since NYRA is not part of the NYS Government then it makes the whole statement an un-truth and therefore a lie...

As an example..if I said a did not sleep with your wife - yet I had- but I did not sleep..that would still be a lie...get it now? :D

I went to Gulf about 40 times last season. I like the place.

People complain about the lack of grandstand seating? I sat there most every day. And on most of those days it was 75% empty. The grandstand was not sold out on any day I was there. On the other hand, the simulcast pit is always jammed.

The grandstand at Gulfstream is very close to the track and offers a great view.

They are not doing well with their slots. I've read they are considering removing 1/2 of them.

I did not have sex with that woman!!

In the past, I was never a fan of NYRA so to speak. However, if you are going to look at this situtation in it's totality, then you cannot argue that NYRA has done a wonderful job in righting many of the wrongs. Their goals and objectives in the past 3-5 years has not been to improve the sport, the industry or the show they put on. The focus was, and needed to be, on infrastructure, management, and cleaning a house that needed to be clean. Anyone who doesn't think they have done that, and done it well, is either very misinformed, uneducated to realities of the global situation, or just entrenched in their own prejudices. With regard to the latter, I understand those types of prejudices don't die overnight.

Be that as it may, one cannot look at attendence and then point to who would be more successful in running the franchise. You can't look at handle either. Those aspects exist in different worlds. I think many of the people who looking to justify bidders other than NYRA are grasping onto the successes or positive attributes that these bidders may have had in other venues. At the same time, they must point to negative items that befell NYRA. Unfortunately, this doesn't speak to the important issues. Bankruptcy is not only indicitive of management. It is also, as in this case, indocitive of environment. Every bidder -- every single one -- is looking for the franchise and wants it under a different set of rules, laws, etc. However, the old ones are the ones NYRA was saddled with for the past X # of years. It's a fallacious arugment.

It's not about lies, hypotheticals, bankruptcy, or any of the other propaganda. It's not about me, you, the guy sitting at the end of the grandstand, or the owner in the Trustee's Room. It's about what is in the best interest of everyone -- NY racing as a whole. I think that most people are letting the propaganda take the front seat to the very real issues that will dictate the future of NY racing.

Eric

Your question was about Goodell? His quote was indeed not as egregious as Perle's, but it struck a similar tone.. The grandest idea these guys have had from the start of the process is to paint as broad a brush as possible with soundbite smears and innuendo versus NYRA in a political atmosphere. They have failed to offer any constructive suggestion as to what they have to offer as solutions to the problems that face ALL of racing except to say "we can do great things"...

Comparing any American racing venue to Aussie racing is ridiculous. Does Australia have major league baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR, PGA golf, et al competing for TV airtime and headline space? Does Australia have a casino every 27 miles competing for its' gambling dollars? Does Australia have a fractured OTB and TV licensing problem like the US? The answer to these questions is no. My complaint with his approach to the issue is that like Perle, he can only keep dragging out old news that is no longer germane to the discussion as opposed to giving specifics as to why Capital Play is a viable alternative worth considering.

The fact is that when there was NO racino dollars in the mix with the franchise, NYRA was the ONLY party interested in running racing in NY. Anyone that wants the racing itself to be the focus of the franchise holder is backing the Association.

And a point as to the comments above...

"A chimp could run Saratoga and be successful"? Really? Any recognition for NYRA's role in making Saratoga so successful? You think that what goes on at Saratoga has been happening forever? No one seems to remember when Saratoga was a money pit for NY racing, attendance was modest, or worse, and there were calls for the meet to be abandoned in the 60's...

This may be news to you and others as it's rarely brought up. But before Saratoga as a town began its' renaissance, the track was a burden to the Association costing a fortune to maintain and drawing little in the way of the acclaim it enjoys now. It was NYRA, with Gov. Harriman, that legislated that Saratoga race a minimum of 24 a year, assuring the permanent status of the Spa, and began to heavily market the "August place to be". That's when the phenomenon of Saratoga began.

You cite Remington and Arlington as feathers in the cap of MEC and CDI, but offer no credit to NYRA for Saratoga being the crown jewel of race meets in the industry. Interesting rationale..

Just a followup on some of the things you mentioned.
You are correct about Saratoga in the past, however in recent years and I am talking about the last 20-25 years, it has been the shining jewel vs a burden. It would be hard to screw that up right now by just keeping it status quo. Something on the outside could hurt it, like gas rationing, another 9/11 situation, etc, but if Saratoga keeps offering the same stakes schedule and the same marketing promos, it is a no lose situation. When I said a chimp, it was on the current Saratoga.

Australia does have sports competition with racing. Aussie Rules Football, Rugby and Soccer are big down there and pack them in to the stadiums and are on TV. They are sports we dont see up here, and probably dont care for, as I am sure they could care less for our baseball. They also have auto racing down under. Ask any Aussie who "Brocky" is and they know. FYI--Brocky was an autoracer in OZ that was killed in an accident about 2 years ago. He was as close to what the USA had in Dale Earnhardt.
As for racetracks and OTB's, the Aussies do have TAB's(which actually are regionalized by three areas in the country)So there are two of the pools that dont go into the main track pool. Aussie tracks also have on the premises licensed Fixed odds bookmakers, which drain handle from the regular pools. They pay a fee to be there but I dont know whether the fee is something simiilar to a track in California paying a fee to NYRA for taking its signal.
Yet, it is a problem for them to deal with too.

As for my mention of SA, Remington and Arlington it was a response to another poster who said what does Magna and CDI know about racing, thus I posted 3 recent tracks that had plus meets.

Finally, I doubt there would be any company or organization that would want to own and run the NY tracks if there were no slots in the future. If they did it would only be to possibly sell off one of the properties to make a killing (that is assuming the property was theres to sell)

How many tracks can you name in the last 10 years, that are new, that dont have a racino on them? Racing by itself is a tough business and a sell. Saratoga and DM are unique meets that make money by opening their doors. Thus, NYRA, being the current operator, will probably continue as the management of the tracks. Hopefully someone else, with top experience comes in to run the slots and the deal being made is a fair one for both sides.

Seems the companies bidding for NY racing are like the politicians, negative campaigning. That sucks, but I guess its what we have come to expect.

By the way, I appreciate your forum and the fact matters can be discussed and debated without personal attacks.

If I may interject until Steve responds...

theiman,"Thus, NYRA, being the current operator, will probably continue as the management of the tracks. Hopefully someone else, with top experience comes in to run the slots and the deal being made is a fair one for both sides."

Gov SPitzer has named NYRA as operator of horse racing. To me it seems there is some wiggle room for an operator of the slots, other than NYRA, to be named. Your scenario might come to pass. I hope NY just gets on with it this year. It's been about 5 years since this slots deal has been in limbo, 4 of which were under Pataki.

Yeah, the "probably" part has to do with the NY Legislature and how they want to handle Spitzers recommendation. I follow this stuff closely and have read all of the reports.

Who owns the land, NYRA or the state? Has that been decided? Has a court issued an opinion that settles that dispute or is it still up in the air? How could a third party smartly bid on this franchise not knowing who owns a billion dollars worth of property?

Nevermind, I see upon further review that the main fixture of the Spitzer deal was for the state to have the racetrack property while NYRA received some forgiveness of debts, etc (approx. $130M). Was that a good deal?!?!?!?!

It sounds like these guys are going to have to work together in the future. NYRA's going to get to run racing most likely, but you can see how the corporations are going to be used to bring in the slots and make the state more money.

I feel I should comment about using Arlington as an example. You are looking at a comparsion from 06' to 07', where field size was down by about 3 horses because no one wanted to run with fear of breaking down. For all extensive purposes, numbers were extremely even with 05's numbers, and has Arlington personal concerned because they were expecting 5-10% growth from the 05' numbers.

Did John Frank have a good meet?

Not sure, but I met him for the first time on contest day and he is really awesome.

i have no ties to NYRA but as i stated i agree with him on the original post. please tell me what circuit offers better racing consistantly through the year. answer: none. the only time racing is inferior up here is the dead of winter. thats because all the major players go south to gulfstream. people with money don't like cold weather. if it were not for that fact magna would probably have gulfstream park for sale too! as for the bankrupcy, its being fixed . it was a poor business model that needed updating. NYRA in the summer is a boom to my city and all of upstate. Face it folks their superior product brings alot $$$$ to new york , forget NYRA's bottom line. which is the part i like anyway. They don't need to be in it for a ton of profit. If you don't like paying 3 bucks to get in, 5 on travers day, low take outs and the fastest horses in the world. Go ahead see how fast one these other operations screw it up for the average bettor. Australian racing ...lol.. i've watched it . looks like they're running in a backyard pasture. when they can beat the likes of Invasor or Rags to Riches maybe i'll listen to them.

jman hit the nail on the head. Spitzer needed to settle the land claim issue and he did so. Spitzer left open the possibility of another group running the slots part of the deal. I don't think there's any way another group gets the racing franchise because the land ownership issue will blow up in their face, so to speak. :eek:

Big A runs for 6.5 months a year and that is inferior alone, not just dead of winter. Big A has about 2 races that anyone else other than regulars in NY watch and those are the Cigar Mile and the Wood.

As for Australia, Invasor might have done well there, but RTR would have been blown away, IMO.

Neither of the horses you mentioned could have beaten Makybe Diva at any distance. Within a span of 2 months she won from 7F to 2 miles, and won 2 races in between that, any she didnt get to race against tiny fields either.

The races you must have seen from Australia were Prov. tracks, mid week, similar to TDN or TurP here.

"Im finishing my coffee"-Walter Sojak