Arlignton Poly
 

They have had 6 fatal breakdowns in the last 6 days of racing. It would seem when you try to speed this surface up it doesnt work. 2 today, yesterday, and a couple other randoms during the week. Have they been reported? If not I would like them to be noted.

Terrible.
Having Directv I'm not able to watch Arlington on TV as of Weds., been using the computer sometimes.

Speaking of Arlington having breakdowns, seems to me that Monmouth has had a considerable amount of fatal and non-fatal breakdowns too. 2 yesterday in the 6th and 7th, one jock off all mounts today.

So aggravated with all this TVG/HRTV stuff. Feel bad for the Arlington folks to get shut out right before the millions. At least at The Fairgrounds we made it through the whole season.

As always you must take the situation into consideration. Todays breakdown was a horse who has done nothing but drop in its brief career for a trainer that is 0 for 36 on the year. Yesterday was a banner day for Catalano/Calabrese as they got what they wanted by getting 2 horses claimed off of them that were both dropping on suspicious circumstances. The fact that both brokedown would seem to me to be more of a damnation of these individuals than any track surface. In yesterdays 6th the horse in question was 3/5 dropping to 5k off of a 10k conditioned win. He was claimed for 25k 2 starts back. In the 9th the horse had been waited out of jail and dropped to the bottom. This was this horses third hard drop in a row.

It is unfortunate but these three were prime canidates to have had something drastically wrong with them going into the race.

From my experiences of polytrack over here and in america, it's the tracks that are at fault and not the surface itself.

Martin Collins has gone over there and sold it as a maintenance free surface, when it is anything but. The tracks have taken his word for it.

There have been next to no problems on the poly over here since it was laid at Lingfield and Wolverhampton and i find it hard to believe that there is so much mof a difference.

Hey, what is the jail time, is it standard amount of time at any racetrack?

Like the sun breaking through the clouds....

you state that there have been six breakdowns and then ask if they have been reported? what are your sources? i saw a couple mentioned in the local paper, but nothing like six in six days. you also cited breakdowns at Turfway last winter that no one was aware of.

I know of four fatals recently. Not sure on the other two

I have never heard claims to, "no maintenance".

Collins' website says, "It provides a safe, durable, high performance, lower maintenance surface."

i've learned that some people are incapable of understanding these words.
in their vocabulary "safe" means that there will never again be a single breakdown, and "lower" maintenance means NO maintenance.

I believe "virtually no maintenance" is the phrase that was used to sell it in the first place.

Well, i know for a fact that Turfway don't do enough with their surface, which is more than likely the reason for the problems, which they have had with the poly and it is unlikely that other tracks are doing the same.

If you see the amount of work that goes into the poly over here, you'll probably see why we get very few breakdowns at all.

I cannot see how two almost identical surfaces could react and ride so differently without the problem being to do with the ground staff rather than the surface itself.

Polytrack has been a miracle over here, all the trainers love it and it is so safe.

more of your "facts"?
Turfway races when the temperature is below freezing. its a different animal than other poly tracks. they had a good year and a bad year. they're still trying to get it right. however its much better for them than dirt.

That is more than likely. Our tracks soon realised that the comment was complete rubbish really. Over the winter, the lads at Wolverhampton were working through the night when the track began to freeze.

You have to harrow the poly differently depending on weather conditions.

How deep you harrow then effects speed and times.

I think many tracks have taken what he said to be gospel and just left the track sometimes in dreadful conditions.

As i was told on another forum, apparently Turfway only harrowed their poly once when it started to freeze. If you only do that you have to expect problems. Poly is okay until it reaches a certain temperature and then it starts to ball up.

If it is kept moving, it doesn't have the chance to freeze or ball up.

Cannon... Did you notice the gate scratch in the 6th? Im sure the managment didnt want 3 breakdowns in one day so they are being extra careful on the heels of the million. Of course FCC wanted to lose the bad horses, but I doubt he wanted them to breakdown, and I dont think he would have ran them if they felt they were in harms way. Its sad for anyone to lose one on the track, but the fact is they broke down on polytrack. They have had 6 in the last week, thats significant regardless of who they are breaking down for. Especially when I have noticed a significant change in recent times at Arlington. It seems to me they tried to speed up the track and it put the horses in danger.

it is all the rain that has made it quicker

Whatever it is its not playing nearly as safe as it was earlier in the meet. The trainers want Del Mar to put water down and management refuses. Does the composition change that drastically when it gets tightened up? If so thats even more reason its not all weather. I think in a perfect climate mid 70s its a fine track, I dont think its made to handle fridged KY winters, or So Cal heat. Hopefully they work it out soon

Last year, and every year before, the fact is they broke down on dirt.

Bid, it's obvious you dislike artificial surfaces. You've said you don't like that races are slower. Is that the only reason, or are there others?

Its slow and boring. Im not sure how much safer it is than dirt anyhow, we just have a smaller sample size. This sport is rich in history, and the history was made on dirt.

I dont dislike poly, its not all weather. I think it would be a good track to train over, I dont think it has any place in the afternoons

I can fully appreciate that sentiment. Thanks.

We'll see what happens at the Santa Anita Breeders Cup day ....

The Euros will win all 11 BC races.

I was just thinking the same thing sniper. If grass translates we are in deep ****

I wonder if they'll ship over from Asia too with the easy flight to CA.

American racing is dirt speed. You take that out of the equation and we will be in deep trouble come BC time

Tapit may have been mentioned in the same breath as Ghostzapper if poly was down a few years ago

That's being a little presumptious. Nashoba's Key is a virtual lock on cushion. There are plenty of American horses that are benefiting from the artificial stuff.

Against Balance or against the best in Europe? She'll face horses that could run circles around Balance in the BC next year.

I can only speak of today but there were two 'vanned off' horses the 2nd of which was already dead when loaded. NEITHER broke down. The first looked to have either had heat stroke or a real stroke (Carmel My Belle a 10K MdClm) and the other died on the track of a heart attack. Hardly the blame of poly.......Not pretty to see though. We had our 4rth day of plus 90 degrees with humidity off the charts. I'd blame that......

weather right now isn't fit for man or beast. it's miserable out there.


as for track substance--no perfect solution. people are trying to find the best thing--whether poly is it, i don't know.

I'll 2nd that... being out in it all day tomorrow isn't a good thing... and the givaway tomorrow is a cotton fleece. 100+ heat index and they're giving away winter clothes.

They do a giveaway on a day that is already drawing high attendance?

I'll count my lucky stars tomorrow when we have low 80's and sun. :)

They normally do something on Million day and Million Preview day. Normally it's a hat on Million day (have done an NTRA mystery voucher giveaway then too in the past).

They gave out folding camping chairs in a bag, even with cupholders, on July 4th (which is normally a big day for them too due to the biggest fireworks display in Chicago on the 4th... downtown's is always the 3rd).

Any breakdown on poly needs a thorough investigation. Are pre race physicals sufficient ? Are the same trainers sending out the victimized horses ? Find the facts. Then meat out the punishment if appropriate.

that would involve the FCC-Catman duo. Not in this lifetime.

LOL. you got that right

Are you making up these numbers? Or are you seeing mytical horses breakdown in your mind. There was two yesterday and one today, a second horse today died of a heart attack.....I know the exact number of break downs this year and it is far less then this time last year.


Now is we could clean this sport up and improve the breed while banning all forms of steriods especially with the yearlings and 2 year olds going to auction, along with brute and lasix there would be far less breakdowns all together everywhere.

I assume you feel the same about any injuries or breakdowns that occur on turf or dirt.

Dr. Mary Scollay has started a national injury reporting system this year (for any track, not just synthetic), and I believe the CA tracks are participating.

Rain on the poly does make the track fast, and it's up to the track how fast they want it, not the weather conditions. If Arlington has had a lot of rain (which it looks like it has) the track will tighten up and could become lightning fast IF not much is done with it. Over here, if we have had a lot of rain on the poly, what we call a Clerk Of The Course will walk the track and identify if he/she thinks the surface is TOO fast for the horses. If so, they will arrange to have it harrowed slightly deeper than normal, allowing the rain water to soak through to the harcore/drainage underneath more quickly.

If poly is managed peoperly, it can be the best surface in the world, but just like any man made substance, put it in the wrong hands and things can change very quickly. I can't be sure, but after hearing about Turfway, i'd guess these tracks just aren't doing enough to make sure they are safe. Yes, it means hard work quite often, but if these tracks are prepared to take brake downs over hard work they don't deserve to be running a horse racing event.

the term "all-weather" is becoming a bit far fetched now. We have found that snow is probably the worst weather condition for poly. Heavy snow will lay on poly easily and create a freezing layer on top. Depending on how heavy the small fall is there can be very little you can do about it. This happened at Wolverhampton back in the winter, but even harrowing after every race wasn't doing the trick. Horses were coming back with frozen poly stuck in their hooves, and jockeys had complained of getting hit with what felt like rocks, when it was just the frozen poly getting kicked back.

Freezing temperatures are not ideal for poly, but there is no reason to believe that heat will cause any problems. Intense heat may mean the tracks might want to put some water on beforehand, but nothing else.

I'd be interested to know whether any of you guys know which 'blend' of polytrack each of these tracks have got. As far as i know there about 5 or 6 different blends available now, all slightly different in consistancy.

The best i have seen is at Lingfield, which rarely has any problems whatsoever, their blend is a much darker colour to look at.

The answer is yes to both questions. He has a single agenda, bash polytrack at every opportunity, and facts do not get in his way.

My question is, does Polytrack itself, when exposed to very hot weather, retain heat to a greater extent than dirt?

I would think that when we see dirt tracks watered on warmer days, that in addition to keeping the dust down, the secondary effect is some release of heat.

I would guess that the physical temperature of Polytrack is higher given its makeup. That could certainly lead to more ontrack trauma.

Anyone know? Where's Quincy when we need him?