Godolphin/Darley article
 

After speaking to a friend of mine today, who i thought was still a senior manager at Godolphin, he advised me that i found this article and gave it a read.

He has left his fantastic position because he had "had enough of it" and was "sick of working with people that had no idea of running an organisation". From what he was saying, it makes me wonder how much longer Godolphin actually last. There have been major fallings out at the top of the ladder and many of their experienced staff are leaving on a regular basis.

Anyway, here is the link to the article. Give it a good read, because it is one of the best artivle ever written about Godolphin. Unlike most journalists, they actually speak the truth.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport...ticle_continue

Interesting article. Almost sounds like he doesn't have a true direction in mind unlike Coolmore.

Considering he clearly has (shock of all shocks) an agenda, it's a well-written (slanted!) piece anyway.

A question.... this Mr. Jeffreys ("... they scorn prying eyes"???) is a freelance writer or is he on the staff?

A few points..... most Sunday newspaper features are put to bed on Thursday so I'd assume there were two versions..... the one where the Godolphin runner won and this one. I'm assuming, of course, that this piece appeared in the print version.

My reason for bringing this up is that it seems to me a pre-meditated (what's a word for an attack that doesn't seem like it's an attack? Insert it here) .... his ducks were lined up and he was just waiting, hoping to use the better version where the runner failed.

The part the author left out was the fact that they didn't have faith in Laverock and PUBLICALLY SAID SO a day or two before the race.

Jealousy is a funny thing and i keep wondering if they were not Arab.....

There is racism in racing... has it always been that way?

To be fair, Godolphin has had 14 winners in the past month...

Ramonti
Rio de las Plata
Scriptwriter
Twilight Star
Blue Ksar
Stage Gift
Emirates to Dubai
Spring City
Pictivia
Gongidas
Rio de la Plata
Perfectperformance
Purple Emperor
Mariotto

How long will they last, you ask? Hopefully for a longass time. They support racing all over the world, they're good for the game and this microscope that they're under is not only unfair it's getting old.

It's their money.... when they offer exorbitant amounts for horses no one bothers to slam the seller(s).....

Okay well I can go on and on here but I'll end it.

GO GODOLPHIN, GO! :D

Didn't mean it as a knock on Godolphin. Personally I don't like the way Coolmore is run. All they seem to care about is stallions and breeding them into the ground. Just meant that he wants to build this huge state of the art sports complex (which I think is a great business plan) and at this time has alot of irons in the fire. I've always thought of him as a knowledgeable horseman. Every stable has their down years. Last year he or his family were winning everything over here.:)

I'm sorry, but you seem very miss informed about the Godolphin operation and the way newspapers are written over here, especially Sunday Newspapers. Weekend newspapers are a big thing over here, a large percentage of people will only buy a newspaper on a Saturday and Sunday. Although i cannot be sure, i would say this article was written on the Saturday, not on the Thursday like you suggested.

I know you are a big fan of all things Godolphin, but this has clouded your judgement in my opinion. They are next to ruined.

Saeed Bin Suroor is getting all the blame for what has happened over the past few years (even from me) until i found out he has very little to do with the training of the horses, apart from having his name written next to every horse and maybe watching them train in the mornings. Simon Crisford sticks his nose in and starts telling people how to train and which horses they should be buying (all of this coming from someone who was just a journalist before landing this job, and didn't have a clue about horses when he was younger when he started to work at a stud farm). He and Saeed have fallen out many times about the decisions that have been made.

Then there is John Ferguson, apparently one of the top bloodstock agents in the world. He must go to the sale ring with a blindfold on, is all i can say. It is true that Coolmore have started bidding for a horse they don't even like to make sure John bids slightly higher and then looks a fool (Jalil, anyone). But as long as he beats Coolmore in a bidding war, Sheikh Mohammed is happy. Now that is jealousy. How bad must it feel to have that much money and not be able to compete in this sport at all?

MMSC, you list the winners they have had in the past month. Fair enough but i noticed you didn't put the races in which they won and the prize money they picked up or a percentage of runners to winners in the past month. Or what would look even worse the percentage of runners to horses they have in the stables at the moment. People get unhappy with particular trainers when horses break down, how come no one gets mad with Godolphin? That's because no one ever knows. I will let you think what you like of the gallop watcher's comment in the article.

They have no plan, no agenda, no clue. They buy everything they see just in hope of getting a good horse. The problem is that they have bought good horses, but they ruin them. Imperial Stride, Vista Bella, The Geezer, Prince Tamino, Rallying Cry, Hinterland...... i could continue but it would get silly.

The worrying thig is that most of the horses they bred themselves have turned out to be very moderate by their (past) standards.

Then we come to the breeding operation. As Tony Morris summed up, it is useless. No good stallions, no one particularly wants to send their mares to a Darley stallion. They are having to spend a huge amount of money, which will take years to break even on (and that isn't certain to happen, either). Yes they have the money and they can do what they like with it, but they have shown time and time again that they cannot run a business, let alone a business of this size.

You say blame the sellers, why? If some fool offers you $1milion for a horse which you know is only worth $150,000 you would say no? I very much doubt it. Put it this way, if someone knocked on your door and said here's $250,000 for your car, can i have it? You would take the money and throw them the keys without any questions asked. The sellers are running a successful business, that is the difference.

A few things Godolphin need to do to start being successful. Sack Crisford, he has shown time and again he cannot handle the role he is working as. Let Saeed do his thing, he is a good horseman and he would certainly give these horses time instead of breaking them down on the gallops and have them sent as dog meat. They should also cut down on the size of the training operation, they cannot handle 300-400 horses, no one can. You're telling me that within those 400 horses they couldn't find one good enough to run in the guineas, derby or eclipse? If that is true then they really do have problems. 150 horses MAX and they will know each horse as an individual, like Aidan O'Brien does. Stop buying all these yearlings, they have to give their breeding operation a chance, but instead they are basically saying "we don't trust our breeding operation" and what sort of an image does that put out to mare owners around the world?

I want them to succeed because i'm fed up with Coolmore storming clear each and every year. The fact is that Coolmore run a business, they know all the horses they train. They don't go mad at the sales and they stick to a budget (something, which all businesses must do, no matter how much money they have disposable). They back their breeding operation up by winning all of these races with home breds. It's a free marketing campaign for them. They don't have to spend thousands of full page spreads in ever horse racing publication around, their record is good enough marketing on it's own. Godolphin need to take a long hard look at themselves and come up with a strict plan. They are ruining European racing with these tactics and they are ruining themselves. This "stupidity" about not buying any progeny of a coolmore stallion has to stop, it hasn't worked out as they had planned, in fact it has been thrown back in their face. Over the years they have done this, Coolmore have pulled further and further clear.

The article that was written has nothing to do with jealousy, it is a fact based article, with many different opinions, all of which are saying that something needs to be done. This article sums up what i get told on a weekly basis from a friend that works there, but not for much longer. The staff are sick of it, they are there for the healthy wage packet they get (25-30,000 a year) just for riding a few horses out every day and only having to work 3 afternoons a week. I know of storied where the work riders have come into work at 6.30am and then they have finished by 7.30am because there aren't enough horses to ride. Up to 400 horses and there aren't enough to ride, mostly because about 50% of them are crippled.

Come to Newmarket for a week, MMSC and i'm certain your attitude towards Godolphin would change.

I respect you and i like how you have stuck by them, but the amount of horses i have liked that have been ruined by them was enough for me. Before i knew the ex General manager, i had no idea about the business side of things but the stories i was told left me in complete shock.

I hope you don't see this as a dig at you in anyway, but i'm trying to get you to see sense.

If I'm not mistaken (and I may be), didn't the Sheikh want to concentrate more on racing in the US (TC races in particular) and Japan? He did pretty good last year here and he's now gotten into Japan. Also I heard last year at Saratoga that he had bought a farm very close to the track specifically for his 2 year olds and layups. Anyone know anything about that? Thanks. Deb

they should go be like Juddmonte

Juddmonte are a fantastic operation, and as said in the article they spend very little at the sales each year and they back their own breeding up and they succeed. Khalid Abdullah has just as much money, after all he is a Prince.

Just read another artivle on the Racing Post, and this just sums it up for me. This is Simon Crisford's comment regarding the next best race in the UK:

“It is unlikely that we will have runners as things stand at the moment.”

I mean, what are they doing with these horses? They have so many horses, and they can'tt find one to run over 10 furlongs in a Gr1 for a massive prize? If not, then the Observer article that i posted couldn't be closer to the truth.

I don't have time to address all of your very good points right now.... so you know though you do make some excellent points.

Sorry for being scattered but a few things.....

No, I don't take it as a dig at all.

The part about blaming the sellers (... and you're right. Much as i'd like to think I wouldn't sell the reality is that I'm sure i would)... what i meant was that they're slammed over and over for their purchases while the sellers have some kinda immunity.

The Geezer (I still don't understand why they bought him but i do like him very much) and Hinterland... why would you say they're ruined?

Short version is this... I have absolutely no problem with your post. Clearly you know much more than I as you've followed this your whole life and I'm just a Smarty-era inductee.

What i defend is their right to do what they choose with their horses. It's that simple.

If a writer is penning a piece and they choose not to play along and answer questions I hold no grudge, especially after some of the nasty things written about them in the American press.

You know for a fact I'm a big fan of AOB and I'm sick to death of the mentality that it's either / or... do you get what i'm saying?

You and most here or all here thought it was a good piece.

I thought it was propaganda.

No big deal... all opinions are valid, right?

One last thing..... I remember how slow they were to release the Blues and Royals news but they've been up front since then, haven't they?

Again, sorry for being scattered..... just short of time.

I don't see how anyone could have a dig at the sellers though. Half of these horse are not for sale, but they offers too good to refuse. I would prefer them to be more sttubborn, and not sell no matter what the offer was.... and in the long run, i think it would help Godolphin if the "opposition" just said NO. If you had a horse that you knew was okay but not top notch (e.g. The Geezer and Opera Cape) and someone came and offered £2million to take them off your hands (i think Opera cape was injured at the time) you would think it was your lucky day, but in reality, that's what happened.

The horses i listed, including Hinterland looked like nice horses before they went to Godolphin, but what happened after then? Nothing. Over night they lost all their ability? or Godolphin just can't train very well at all. They are the only two options. Same with short skirt and Silca's Sister, the later was a very good filly. She is now injured (what a surprise and is doubtful to run again). Vista Bella finished 3rd in the 1,000 guineas as a three year old. She was packed off to Godolphin and within THREE (yes, three) months she was seriously injured and has since shown nothing on the track.

I wouldn't mind, but this happens so much, same happened with Imperial Stride, Narivk, Winged Cupid etc etc.

The reason you ask? They train the horses too hard. They gallop the cr*p out of them, and they think that is how to train a racehorse.

Go to the races in England and you will never see an unfit Godolphin horse, they will always look as fit as a flea because they have been galloped sensless. Yes, it gets them fit, but a horse CANNOT be trained like that. They do the same with their 2yo's as well, which is why it is very rare to see a Godolphin 2yo show the same sort of form at 3.

David Loder quit training the Godolphin 2yo's because he was sick that he was being told they "had to win first time out" which meant galloping these poor 2yo's into the ground time after time. It was disgusting to hear of the break downs that they suffered, but they didn't care because they would just go and buy one to replace it.

People have tried to change their ways, but if anyone trys to change them, they have a letter of resignation through the post for them to sign the very next day and a letter of confidentiality....... i wonder why!

Put it this way, the news about Electrocusionist wasn't what you would call prompt

You defend what they do with their horses? You defend the non stop galloping, you defend all of the injuries (most of which could be stopped), you defend the arrogance? That doesn't seem like you at all.

As i said, come to Newmarket for a week and speak to the people in the know. I will introduce you to some people and i'm pretty sure you would leave very upset and angry.

Again, I apologize as all I have time for is a quick break but i have to comment on this.....

This offends me.

The sad Electrocutionist news was released the morning it happened, I don't believe everything i hear / read in print / read online. Not saying you're wrong, only that i don't know if what you say is true just as i don't know if what they say is true.

This though..... I lost my thoughts when i read this line.

If i didn't know you a bit I'd say how the **** dare you.

Since i do know you somewhat, I'll just say I'm surprised that you'd post such a thing. I'd say I'm hurt by it but i don't want to play the role of drama queen.

Surprised. I'll leave it at that.

Well, this is your quote......

"What i defend is their right to do what they choose with their horses. It's that simple"


You said you defend their right to do what they choose with their horses. They choose to gallop them into the ground and cause injuries to many different horses, horses that could have gone places and won big races if they had stayed with their previous trainer.

I'm sorry if i have misread what your quote was meant to establish, but to me you are saying you defend what they do?????

I was shocked when i reas that post, because i know that isn't like you at all. You know as well as me Godolphin have so many injuries and it happens every year.

The Electrocusionist thing......... well, if you say so. Remember where my father works?

Jesus you know damned well that's not what i mean.

Nice. I'm criticized for the angels thread, accused of being overly morbid when all I'm trying to do is show some respect and now I'm accused of the opposite?

I understand who you Dad is and that you know more than I BUT please understand..... what you're saying is, to me, hearsay. Rumor, accusation..... I've said before i don't believe everything i read ANYWHERE.

I support their right to buy whichever horses they choose. I love many of their horses, I respect the way they pour money into international racing and promote the sport. What's wrong with that and why are you twisting my words and accusing me of supporting any kind of injury to any horses?????

Indeed it is...everyone has an agenda.

Are you kidding me?!

Yeah, I didn't even bother responding when I saw that ridiculous statement.

Coolmore have a budget, whether you choose to believe that is your problem. Their budget is HUGE, but it is there. Godolphin? well, they spend as much as they can, hoping for a return, which is a very risky game. When i say they don'y go mad, i mean in relation to Godolphin/Darley.

If you believe this article is hearsay or rumour, then you are very much mistaken.

As i say, you don't live here, you don't know the ins and outs. Yet you are all telling me that i'm mistaken?

Godolphin are a laughing stock over here, a complete laughing stock to anyone involved in racing.

It's just that their media friendly position seems to appeal to many for reasons unknown to me.

Could you tell me where they actuaslly pour money into racing besides the UAE?

They do not promote the sport anymore than any racing/stud organisation.

I don't have the time to pour through the auction results right now but when you're willing to go to 16 Million for a donkey who can't even make the track you are NOT keeping a budget. :rolleyes: You've probably got a lot more time on your hands than I...check out the yearling & HIT results within the past few years and tell me how well that tight budget has helped Coolmore in their auction purchases.

Did i ever mention it was a tight budget? No?

Lets just say they are more careful with their money than the Godolphin crew, by far.

Both are bad for spending the amounts of money they do, but Godolphin do it much more often than Coomore do.

I'm not talking about yearlings by the way, this topic was never about yearlings! It was the stupid amounts that they pay for the older horses already in training and been on the track.

Ever see Coolmore do that? No, didn't think so.

Whether it's yearlings or older horses in training, it's their money and it helps the little guy they are buying from. What's the problem with that?!

That is the problem, it's helping the sellers, but not helping racing at all. Most of these owners they are buying from don't bother re investing it into racing as they cannot keep up with the dominance and they know as soon as they get a half decent horse, a bid which they cannot refuse will come in for Godolphin.

I wouldn't mind, but they buy these horses and then ruin them, that is what annoys me the most. I want to see these good horses, but as soon as they go to Godolphin, the chance of seeing them do any good again is almost nill.

I was speaking to someone from a top yard the other day, an one of their star fillies looks like she will going to Godolphin at the end of the season, he just said "well, that's another to hit the dust", same happened with another horse he used to look after named Vista Bella. It's heartbraking for these people.

In my opinion, they are ruining racing in the UK.

And that is Godolphin's problem how?

Dude, don't you work for Coomore? How can anyone take your opinion on the matter at face value?

If they didn't buy these old horses for 10 times their value year after year, it wouldn't really happen. Smaller owners would not feel pressured into making a sale and they wouldn't feel like they were being dominated all of the time.

It is driving many of the smaller owners out of the industry. They take their money and run and put it into an industry with a greater return.

The problem is that it is these owners that the horse racing authorities are trying to appeal to, but how can they when this is happening?

Wrong.

Being dominated?! Ha,ha,ha! These people are making out like bandits...they are the bad guys in the situation if they are not choosing to re-invest in the sport and obviously they are the ones who do not give a damn about the sport to not do so. Horseracing is a sport which you get into knowing you're probably going to take a loss and if they are failing to realize this when they get in then obviously they are the folks with the bad business plan.

You have a serious problem with people who have money.

of course not and its also the kind of generic broadside that cannot be backed up. how in the world would anyone be able to keep track of what "these owners" are doing with their money?

i would think that most owners would be tickled pink to develop a horse that someone wants to purchase at an outrageuous sum. and as I always point out if they don't want to sell they are free not to, and I could understand that some might not want to part with the horse no matter what.

picturing myself in that situation I know I would be smiling and then trying to figure out how to do it again.:)

They are not choosing to re invest into the sport because of the domination of certain big organisations. Owners have to make a living, no matter how big or small they are. Some of them get a nice horse and it gets snatched away from them.

It happens on a weekly basis over here.

If we didn't have Godolphin it wouldn't happen.

They apparently have a superb breeding organisation, so why don't they put faith into it and use the home bred horses? Instead of buying everyone else's? It is drawing the public away from racing, following nice horses until they get bought and then they disappear into a big blue hole.

They have no plan, just just try and buy themselves out of trouble, and so far it hasn't worked, and i doubt it ever will work with the money they spend and the fact they don't seem to put any faith in their breeding operation.

They need to sort themsleves out before they get left too far behind by Coolmore and Juddmonte.

Juddmonte do a fantastic job, they don't have to rely on other people's horses or other people's yearlings. But they too have the money to do so if they liked. Each year they have a successful one, doesn't this tell Godolphin/Darley anything. Doesn't it tell them that they are failing to run a business.

They seem to be unable to runa business and unable to train racehorses.

They have ruined the economy of Newmarket, they promised hundreds of jobs, where were they?

In America they have a different set up, and they succeed. While Crisford and Ferguson are at the head of affairs, the Godolphin downfall will continue.

That is all i have say.

Please feel free to visit Newmarket anytime you like and you will see what i'm talking about.

At the end of the day, i think this article is a really good piece of writing from a factual point of view. If anyone knows the Observer that well, they will know that this paper isn't the sort to write nonsense and not be able to back it's comments up.

Not opinion, but fact.

I'm done.

So they snatch them away by paying 10 times the value for them? Those poor small owners CHOOSING to sell their horses for vast sums of money. How will they ever survive? :rolleyes:

To be honest, I got the sense the article was based more than anything on disgruntled former employee points of view. Your friend, the former Goldolphin employee... was he let go or move on for better opportunity?

why do you care that they sort it out? I thought your claim was that they are ruining racing, wouldn't you want them to fall more behind and fail so that they don't ruin Newmarket?

It may have had some facts in it but it read to me like a hit piece, not some objective analysis of the situation. It did not appear balanced at all, it seemed like the objective was to fire a shot at them since they are having a down time over there. Come on, look at the title "What A Waste of Money".
Ostensibly the reason for the article was the result of the King George but its quite clear that they had this material prepared and were waiting for the right moment to unload.

He went because was sick of the conflict between management he has moved to another management role away from racing.

The article was well written, and to my knowledge, the only former employees that gave opinions were those tha had left before things got bad there.

Vince (Smith) trains on his own now.

I still have two friends that are working there as work riders and both are training to do different things (one a farrier and the other a stock broker) to get away from it all.

Sniper - it is ruining the fun for the smaller owners. The money is certainly a bonus for them, but it ruins the fun of seeing their good horses run in their own silks and it stops them from going into ownership again for the majority of them.

Godolphin have far too much greed for their own good, and it is backfiring on them.

Reduce the buying of horses, reduce the size of the string, have a major management shake up, and they might be getting somewhere.

I would love to see them compete at racing level with Coolmore and Juddmonte, but they are failing to do that at the moment, but with the money and staff they have....... why? ask yourselves that.

If they are in it for the fun then they have every right to not take the money and run. Don't make them out to be victims.

For all the bashing that Jamie Sanders deservedly gets for her placement of horses at least she had the balls to tell people to F off when they wanted to vastly overpay for Teuflesberg.

I care because if they actually sort themselves out, there wouldn't be a need to buy everyone else's horses there wouldn't be a need to drive owners out of racing. When they are making money it will be good for racing, but while they are losing out bigtime, they are trying to get out of it by spending. They have shown that they cannot manage a big string, so buy continue to buy horses to add to that?

The article needed to be written by a sports writer that wasn't worried about a backlash, this is a rare thing in British journalism, especially in sports journalism. As i said, i didn't even know about it at first, but the person who told me said it couldn't be closer to the truth and i'm not being funny, but he worked there and would know much more about it than either me or you.

I would love to introduce you to some of the staff and let them give their opinions, they wouldn't be too far off those in that article.

However, i sense that many don't believe the article, so i will save my breath. No problem, everyone has their opinion and that is fair enough.

I shall comment with my opinions and knowledge no more :)

I wish we had owners with that mentality, but sadly we don't. But having said that if Godolphin were not around, these purchases would be very rare, indeed.

Well, that would be disappointing. I might not agree with all you wrote, but it's obvious you have conviction in your opinion.

Not sure what the Diamond stakes is, but the King George and QE is mentioned in the title and in the first sentence. I'm thinking it was the event that triggered the piece.