Presque Isle Downs - Nice Purses
 

In terms of money, it will be Del Mar, Keeneland, and Saratoga in northwestern Pennsylvania when Presque Isle Downs offers an inaugural 25-night meet with an average of $500,000 per program in purses.

Management and horsemen are putting the finishing touches on the condition book and stakes schedule for the meet, which runs from Sept. 1-Sept. 29 near Erie. It’s projected that about $13 million--most of it revenue from slot machines that began operating earlier this year--will have to be paid out during the first live meet at Presque Isle by law.

The condition book will reflect base purses, but in reality the payouts will be 75% higher under a scheme devised by track owner MTR Gaming Group and the Pennsylvania Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association. First place will earn 75% of the advertised purse, followed by second place at 45%, third place at 20%, four place at 15%, fifth place at 10%, sixth place at 5%, seventh place at 3%, and eighth place at 2%.

Thus, the lowest purse--$14,000 for $10,000 maiden claimers and $5,000 claimers that haven’t won in six months--is actually worth $24,500. A $40,000 maiden special weight event is worth $70,000. The highest overnight purse--$50,000 for an open allowance race--will be $87,500 under the supplement plan.

The stakes schedule, at about $1.7 million, includes the $400,000 Presque Isle Downs Master Stakes for fillies and mares at six furlongs Sept. 15. Officials said they hope the stakes serves as a potential prep for the new $1-million Breeders’ Cup Filly and Mare Sprint in late October.

The Sept. 15 card will include the $175,000 Presque Isle Mile for 3-year-olds and up at one mile, and the $175,000 Karl Boyes Memorial Northwestern Pa. Stakes for 3-year-olds and up at 5 1/2 furlongs.

Presque Isle, where the racetrack is one mile in circumference, will be the first to use a Tapeta Footings surface for racing. The synthetic Tapeta surface developed by trainer Michael Dickinson also is being installed at Golden Gate Fields in Northern California.

“This has really been a joint effort with the horsemen,” said Rose Mary Williams, director of racing at Mountaineer Race Track & Gaming Resort, which also is owned by MTR Gaming. “We’ve worked together well to make it a really good meet, and the synthetic surface will be a plus.”

Pennsylvania HBPA president Joe Santanna noted the purses for the first Presque Isle meet will be the highest in Pennsylvania racing history. “When I looked over the first condition book, I said, ‘This can’t be a racetrack in Pennsylvania,’ ” Santanna said.

The Erie area has been without live Thoroughbred since 1987, when Erie Downs held its last meet. The track, previously called Commodore Downs, which opened in 1973, catered to lower-level claiming horses.

For its final meet 20 years ago, Erie Downs offered 79 days of racing with an average purse of $1,500, according to the Racing Manual. The fifth-place finisher in a $5,000 claiming race will earn that much this year at Presque Isle.

Santanna said if gaming projections hold, Presque Isle should be able to offer about $300,000 a night over 100 programs in 2008. So the published purses in this year’s condition book reflect what purses should look like next year.

Presque Isle has received about 45 stall applications thus far, but that could change when the condition book is officially released. “I think you’ll find they’ll be coming in from all over the country,” Williams said.

Presque Isle will offer eight races per program on a Wednesday-through-Monday schedule. On Sept. 21, Pennsylvania breeders will have their night at the races with six $90,000 stakes for state-breds.


http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=39801

check out the condition book at
http://www.presqueisledowns.com/raci...itionbook1.pdf

I'm sure Cannon will take a long look at that book.

Sumwonlovespresqueisle's purses.

I think he said that he was racing there, but it could have been sarcasism or misread

2000 slot machines and 200 horseplayers with lousy horses and lousier trainers getting paid big. It's the Apocolypse.

I am looking forward to some of the horses I own part of running there! I don't think the trainer that trains the horses I am a part of is lousy at all StoS, but thanks for the input.

That money is crazy though!

You're welcome. No offense meant. If I had horses, I'd run them there. But it's a lousy model for any business.

Why do you think that?

I don't think that any business that cannot support itself is a good model. Other people may believe that slot revenue is a part of horse racing. I don't. I think it props up second and third tier racetracks that would not exist otherwise. I would expect horse owners and trainers to say it's all good but I just think there are too many bad racetracks running too many bad horses. Slot machines have proven not to bring new horse race wagerers. In fact, they cannibalize handle. I'm not a fan.

If they have money I will go.

So it would be better if there was just a casino and the money that goes to purses could just go to the politicians pet pork projects?

I don't think he said that. I think StS is saying that supplementing purses with slot machine revenue is not a long term solution to draw in new horse racing fans.

Perhaps lowering takeout is more of a solution.

If there were "just" casinos, there would be no Presque. There would also be no new racetracks in New Mexico and no new harness tracks in Ontario. It's a joke what the purses are at these places compared to handle. Other than supporting bad horse racing, what single good thing does racing there or at the other slots tracks do for the sport or the bettors? Did racing improve at Woodbine? At Mountaineer? At Gulf? No. Did takeout go down at any of those racetracks? No. It does zero for the bettors, who are the reason why racetracks exist. If you want to cast stones at people who benefit from what I think is a bad concept, don't leave out the horsemen. They are certainly also responsible for creating these artificially high purses for what I consider bad horse racing. As to your question, my answer is I disagree with your premise that these slot macine places would exist without the approval of horsemen. They wouldn't. They shouldn't exist, period. That said, if you are in the business, you can only take what they give you and I certainly have no problem with people getting paid as much as they can. I just think they're bad for racing.

You dont think that racing has improved at Mountaineer or Woodbine? You think it is better for competition to come in and get favorable treatment and just let the tracks die because they cant compete without it? I agree that the tracks are not thinking forwardly in terms of doing more for the paying/betting customer. I campaign on a regular basis to track management thoughout the country for this. But a lot of that has to do with state mandated regulation where the state actually controls the pricing (ie.takeout)in an industry. What other industry has to to overcome a regulator that is also a competitor? (Lottery, etc) To say that all slots are doing is proping up an industry is words. I prefer allowing an industry to compete on a more level playingfield with other gambling competitors. It would be like McDonalds not being allowed to sell salads and chicken sandwichs because it started off as a hamburger joint. By allowing the tracks to expand their gambling menus you are benefiting the tracks, the racing industry and all associated businesses.

Why would wouldn't this just be considered another revenue stream as opposed to a marketing platform? If you make horseownership more affordable you will attract more new owners who will help grow the game from within.

Great point!

It will soon anyway.They always change their minds{Politicians}and when the money gets big,and their budgets are coming up in the red,they will come for your slots money.What they give,they will also take away.

Yes, it certainly is a new revenue stream for horseowners, and as purses go up, it does open the game up to lower income fans who would like to become owners. That is a good thing.

However, I think that most aspiring/current owners are/were horseplayers first. I'm a DeeTee stables member, and most of my non-horseplaying fans think that it is very cool that I'm a part of it. With that said, none of them ever take me up on the offer to come down to the simulcast to watch SWLY run (only 15 min away). It is hard to try to grow the industry from within, though I will still try.

Unfortunate but true

Lure them with place bets...

I don't think racing has improved at slots tracks. You may get a horse or two for upper class races you wouldn't have got but no overall. And when a Thursday Philly Park race with an overinflated purse draws one or two runners out of NY, what good does that do? None, really. The Phil Park pools are too small and the takeout too usurious to wager seriously into so all you get in the end iis a watered down NY race.

I don't think slot machines compete for horse players. I doubt you can go to a slot room at a racino and see three people with a racing form. I do not believe they are the same people, no.

Should some tracks die because they cannot compete? Absolutely. I don't see anything wrong with people, businesses or industries who cannot compete failing. The favorable treatment you speak of I don't understand. It's not right to say that in one sentence without following it in the next by saying that the slot tracks are created, at least in great part, by the horse racing industry itself.

Your on your own with the McDonalds analogy. I don't get it. That's like saying US Steel should have gotten saved in the end despite the fact the economy changed and they couldn't compete. Who should have paid? Microsoft?

I'm not a takeout/regulations expert, so I concede there. But how can Ellis do what they did? It's possible, apparently.

It's not as if every single track that is succesful has slots. Tampa, Oaklawn, Arlington, Santa Anita, Keeneland all had or are having good meets this year. It's possible, apparently.

I understand that a new race track with high purses is a good thing for people who earn their money racing and like I said, people should certainly earn whatever they can.

If you try to explain to a non-racing fan what Presque is and why the purses there are as high as DelMAr and Saratoga but pools are going to be so low that a $100 wager will bang it up so much that you cannot bet the track, you'll get a confused response.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think tracks should exist if wagering does not support them.

The purses at Presque Isle have to be a plus, imo. All races on the card benefit. What's not to like ?

If you dont think that Praire Meadows, Charlestown, Mountaineer, and Woodbine dont have better racing than before slots you must have a short memory.

The McDonalds analogy was saying that a restaurant should be able to offer more items on its menu as the market changes just as the tracks should be able to offer more gambling options as the market changes. As partners with the track the horsemen should be able to share in the proceeds of the new menu.

Ellis had to petition the horseracing authority to get permission to drop the takeout in the pick 4. KY has one of the few racing commissions that allows the tracks to lower takeout rather easily

Why would there ever be a need to explain Presque Isles purses to a nonracing fan? Why would anyone care? Why do you care?

That being the case, then surely, Presque Isle Downs would have never come into existence.

As most people know, Mountaineer Gaming is only using the track as a means to generate income from the slots in an area where no slot gambling is available. A smart investment move by Mountaineer.

Did racing need another track in northwestern PA? Absolutely not. With 7 tracks within a 5 hour drive (Penn National, Mountaineer, Thistledowns, Beulah Park, Finger Lakes, Woodbine and Fort Erie), why in the world would racing need another track in an area where tracks already struggle to fill their races? It doesn't. But since Presque Isle Downs will become a reality, let's look at the positive effects it will have on racing.

1) Excellent purses that will benefit everyone involved in racing (owners, trainers, jocks, stable staff)
2) Economic boost to the agricultural industry in the area, as well as a positive employment impact.

Will it generate great racing? Doubtful. Have to wait and see. Surely the large purses will/should attract better horses, but next year when they run their meeting (May-Sep) they will be competing against Bel/Sar, WO, AP and to a lesser degree Pen, Pha, Del and Mth. Just not enough good horses to go around, so yeah, racing will be diluted. But I don't see where that's a big deal, because a genuine fan should/will appreciate racing at all levels. Racing is racing. Within the last year I've witnessed great enthusiam for racing equally in the grandstands at the "great" Churchill Downs and the "lowly" Flagstaff.

As far as slots being a prop for racing, (it is), but I don't see a problem with that either. Anything that puts money into racing to keep it going or to stimulate growth is a good thing.

Here's a paragraph about Tioga Downs, NY, a new harness racino.
http://www.pressconnects.com/apps/pb.../1002/BUSINESS

A couple of months ago Tioga/Vernon Downs petitioned the state to lower the slots takeout so they could compete with Turning Stone (Indian reservation). The state did so because the tracks needed to be on a par with the Indian reservations to survive. Customers were all going to Turning Stone for the bigger and more frequent slots payouts.

LOL.

It took a while but thanks for the Cannon Shell "Why do you care?" treatment you trot out when someone disagrees with you. :D

Like I said earlier, people getting paid is a good thing. But diluting racing is a very bad thing for the bettors. When you say "Everyone involved benefits," how exactly do bettors benefit?

A fair question.

The immediate benefit to "bettors" is that it is one more track to choose from.
Gambling is relative. There is "value" in every race, if "the bettor" is astute enough to find the value. Considering the variables of the Tapeta surface and horses shipping in from all over the northeast, midwest, kentucky and Canada, it should make selecting a winner pretty challenging. But more than that, it should make for some very interesting racing.

"Bettors" never had it so good. With similcasting and internet wagering, there are hundreds of races for a "bettor" to choose from each day. If you find that Presque Isle Downs doesn't provide the types of races that you like to bet, then move on to a track that you find more adventageous. But at least you will have one more option to choose from and that is definitely a good thing.

I don't need another track to fire at. I'm not the type of wagerer who sits in a simulcast seat flipping my book to the next race going off in two minutes.

The problem for me is that these slot tracks dilute good racing elsewhere at the direct expense of the bettors. Nobody in their right mind will play a p-3 or p-4 at a Pennsylvania track that takes 25-30% of the pool in take out while offering meager pools.

I have no problem with people racing where they can earn the most money. But their gain is the bettors' loss. There's no doubt about that.

Tioga Downs isn't new, it had been idle for almost 25 years in disrepair on the side of Rte 17. It makes me ill every time I see it, because they were granted a slots license and had their racino up and running within like 18 months, whereas NYRA is at what, 5 years now and no racino?

Personally I hate slot machines but if they help racing (and if you don't think the racing is better at MNR or especially DEL post-slots you don't remember the $1500 claimers there) I'm all for it.

I do remember those days, especially Mountaineer where we used to ship out of Detroit in the late fall in the 70's. I guess I'd say that with inflation, a nickel claimer today is no better than a $1500 claimer 25 or 30 years ago, so it's arguable the racing has improved.

As for Delaware, what good do all their five and six horse Allowance fields do for the bettors? Nice horses, ok, but in my mind the bettors suffer when these decent horses run at Delaware with their $7,000 pick-3 pools. I guess I look at it a bit different than a lot of folks.

I also have a sore spot for Delaware (and other mid-atlantic tracks) dating back to when they stopped carrying Keeneland's signal when that track tried to reduce takeout on ALL wagers to 16% stating their own handle would suffer. Keeneland relented. The bettors get the short end. I digress.

Give us an example.

Why do you care except when you make the argument that slots tracks dilute racing at other venues. Which would seem to be contrary to your statement that slots tracks racing has not improved post slots. I agree with you that the takeout levels are crazy at some of these places and it is short sighted of both the tracks and horsemen not to address this. And the truth is that the bettors who have supported the game for years should also share in the wealth with reduced takeouts. But to say that a business should not be able to expand their gambling offerings and help support their core product is unusual to say the least.

lol.

How about Delaware's 7th on Monday? Five horses N2X/$32k optional. WPS Pool $64,000. P-3 pool $7,000.

How about the 5th the day before. Six horses. N3x/$50k. P-3 pool was $9,000 but hey that was DelCap day!:D

Or, the 7th race the day before that with 5 betting interests. Or the 7th on 7/10.

Or, my favorite, the 8th race on the 10th... n3x/$50k. Four horses. The WPS pool was $42,000. The race after that was a $10,000 Maiden Claimer. The WPS pool was 25% higher.

Okay, not great races and you have a gripe with Delaware. Personally, I think it is one of the gems of the northeast and it would have been tragic if it closed.

Back to your point, to illustrate your thesis - Delaware Park is closed. Where would these horses race?

That's my only point and it's not contrary. Not at all. At least how I look at it which includes the interests of bettors. What do these Delaware dirt Allownace races with 5 horses do for the sport other than to dilute racing at more attractive tracks, wagering wise? Few people bet them. In my mind, that's not very good racing.

"Not great races" is a bit generous. There's several of those every week there.

The good ones would run in NY or NJ or KY or Chicago. The ones that don't belong at that level would drop and ship anywhere.

Delaware is a nice place. So was AkSarBen. So was Rockingham. So was Washington Park. So was Atlantic City. Especially so was Hialeah. When Hialeah went bust, they had the highest take out rates in the nation.

Like I said before, if I made a living directly from training or owning horses, I would have a far different perspective. To me, the only things that matter are quality, field size, pool size and takeout. And since slot machines artificially inflate purses at racino tracks at the expense of the things that matter to me, I'm against them.

I wouldn't put AkSarBen and Atlantic City in the same category as Delaware. If they closed all the mid-level tracks in the northeast, Delaware would be the one they should keep. As for Hialeah, tragic. It was a matter of 3 rats fighting over a one piece of cheese and the two bigger rats won. Never made it to Washington Park or Rockhampton.

Unfortunate, but true.

Okay, staying with your thesis - let's close all of the tracks (just in the northeast) that are slots (or will be) supported. Now closed are Mountaineer, Charles Town, Penn National, Philadelphia Park, Finger Lakes, Fort Erie, Woodbine, Indiana Downs and Hoosier Park.

Now we're talking about a lot of horses. Where do you send them?

Hey, I loved Atlantic City. Saw Manilla win the UN there in the mid 80's.

The 'decent' horses from those tracks would run anywhere else. As for the nickel clamers, I don't care, really. A nickel claimer today was a $2000 claimer 15 years ago. I'm sure they're important to the people who own and train them but serious players would much rather see fewer races with fuller fields and better horses. They could keep those tracks open for what they are. Some would make it, others wouldn't. What would the peolple displaced do? I don't know. They'd do whatever the people displaced out of the auto or steel industries did, I expect. The other dynamic that keeps bottom tier tracks alive is the insane simulcasting revenue sharing arrangements that exist. "Live handle" has very, very little to do with how well most race tracks financially perform. From a serious wagerer's view, the world might well be better without Philly Park, Charlestown or any other slot track that cannibalizes field size, quality and pool size at better race tracks.

Okay, sounds like your involvement in the game is primarily gambling. Fair enough. The industry needs "serious players" to keep the game moving, but as you are starting to find out, the "need" for having "serious players" is evaporating. Presque Isle is a prefect example, not a bet has been made, but yet, they have a fabulous purse structure.

Every track should strive to achieve the best handle possbile through fan interest (attendence), lowering the takeout, simulcasting and internet wagering. However, thankfully, many tracks now and in the future will have a "get out of jail free" card with slot revenues to keep their tracks and the industry going.

Slot tracks are here to stay and will continue to proliferate. There will be no happy ending for the type of people who embrace racing as you do. So what is to become of the "serious players"?

LOL. How the hell do you know how I embrace my own a ss much less racing? I've owned race horses, I've been to over 100 racetracks, I've seen arguably the most highly anticipated race of the last 30 years. For certain, I've met or have had phone calls or have received personal emails from racetrack CEOs numbering higher than the times you have spelled the word "attendence" correctly.:D

You're a fool if you believe slot machines are what drives this sport.