Polyhater...
 

http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/edit...le.cgi?id=8468

I guess this dude will have to take up greyhounds or jai-lai

Personally I like his take that we are ruining the breed with Polytrack....

yes we were much better off with the sinister minister..deal

Dude must be losing his shirt and can't adjust his handicapping. The stuff is here to stay, so gamblers must adapt or lose. Survival of the fittest, quit crying and get 'capping.

The cheaters will figure how to win on it sooner or later. Maybe they'll have to make a drug that will be like a downer for the first half and an upper for the second.

if you adjust your handicapping to polytrack (cheap speed fades and dies out in the stretch) then you can make a ton of $$ from the people betting the cheap speed. I'll keep it... plays to the more astute handicapper.

Should change the breed for the better if they put some stamina and soundness back into these fragile speedballs.

Who really thinks there are any legit grade 1s in california anyhow?

The Bing Crosby is shaping up to be one of the worst fields in history. The favorite is looking like BATTLE WON.

All of these major races run over the artifical surfaces have looked like eyesores to me.

Just ugly looking races.

I guess if you like watching slow-paced races, with bunched up fields, and horses racing fairly erratically it might be for you. It's about as entertaining as watching pacers without sulkys.

There is something very beautiful when watching an awesome performance, by a top class horse, in a truly run dirt race.

After I make any notes I need, I tape over these major synthetic races because they are tremendously unenjoyable to watch.

The only two from this year that I know I still have kept tape of are the Blue Grass and Hollywood Gold Cup. Obviously two painfully ugly races to watch, but I had to keep the one because it represented the deepest field in a Derby prep, and the other one because it represented Lava Man's 3rd straight Gold Cup.

Watching Domincan rally wide into the teeth of disgracefully slow fractions, to nab Street Sense, is almost unbearable.

The Hollywood Gold Cup might have been even harder to watch....with Ap Xcellent (who's never won on anything but cushion track) losing to Lava Man by a nose, with a stoutly closing and moderate Big Booster flying at him.

The races are run like turf races, but horses don't close with those exciting late bursts like they do on turf. It's more of a steady grinding move.

If racing everywhere was switched from natural dirt surfaces, to artifical dirt surfaces, I would obviously still be involved in day-to-day betting and nothing like that would change.

But, there is no way I'd consider myself a fan of the sport anymore. I love true dirt racing, and have a video library with tapes of races from virtually every Graded Stakes winner this decade, virtually every Grade 1 winner through the 90's, virtually every champion to race from the 80's, and all of the top horses from the 70's.

I can only speak for myself, but I find polytrack racing to be tremendously boring and uninteresting. Even when you have a bet on the race, you still feel like you want to sleep away the first half of the race.

But hey, we all know how natural dirt is such a demanding and crippling surface.

Will you put me in your Will?

I get your point in the rest of your post, but I still think the ugliest Grade 1 of the year was the Suburban.

Dominician just got his butt kicked by Pavarotti & Timed Squared.

The Suburban was as bad as it gets....

It was ugly from a quality of competition standpoint, but it was a truly run horse race.

the fact the Tokoyo winner was a factor tells you all you need to know

I agree with much of what you say but the hollywood races still are run like dirt, they dont bunch up as you describe and the fractions are reasonble.

works for me. just hit the tri with it!

Nice job! The top two were thrilling in battle.

The longer they go, the worse speed seems to do at HP.

As I'm sure you know, looking at naked fractions can be overrated, because a track can be made to play faster. It doesn't change the way the races are run much at all, but it does help produce times that aren't silly looking.

Last fall at Keeneland, the polytrack was strongly favoring closers and the paces were comically slow. After a few weeks, I remember articles being written complaining about the ridiculious way those races had been run. Beyer among them.

They made the track very fast for the final few days of the meet, Calculating Man broke the six furlong track record, and suffered a fatal injury right after the wire.

For whatever reason, that breakdown went unreported, but I believe I'd heard it was caused by a back injury.

Polytrack races are brutal to watch. I loved betting AP for 25 years and I can barely watch their non-grass races now. And Kee is even worse.

IMO, the only track that really needed a synthetic surface was Turfway, and IMO, of the artificial surfaces in use now, plays more like dirt than the others.

The final time for the 1 and 1/16th race at Arlington over the polycrap with Pavarotti was 1:49 3/5.

The final time for the 1 and 1/8th Swaps over dirt was a full second faster 1:48 3/5.


I wonder if that means Tiago would have won the Arlington race by 35 lengths or so? :rolleyes:

None of them needed polytrack. They needed to reconfigure, and relay the dirt, its sad

I wonder which of the synthetic tracks will be the first to go back to conventional dirt. It may take time, but I would not be surprised to see it happen within 5-7 years.

:(


I know it is completely off topic, but what did you think of First Defence today?

do you mean the poly favors closers, or is it just more of a fair surface, for example when there is a speed duel the closers can get up to win?

Storm Cat has ruined the breed , the sooner he is pensioned or dies the better off racing will be.

the polytrack, at least for AP and KEE, which have the same polytrack mix (and will be the same mix as Del Mar!!!) plays to stalkers and especially closers and has a bias toward them. Anything that goes out quick early on it will tire unless the horse is 10X better than anything else in the field.

Alot of people don't like it, because all they look at are the speed numbers and play the one with the highest rating regardless of class of horse, which will NOT work on polytrack. That also inflates the payouts, as everyone bets the cheap speed that will fade and won't bet a good closer.

It seems that the polytrack plays almost the exact opposite as the 'golden rail' that used to be at Keeneland on dirt and Aqueduct's inner dirt track, where anything that got out front early won. Poly: out front early is normally a bad thing, as the horse will tire and get passed by a good closer.

sounds good, what i have hated the most are the tracks where you see maybe 4 speedburners in one race you expect a suicidal duel they go 44 flat and the front runners win anyway!

can you explain?

that's also because alot of the jocks figured out that if they take their horse out quick, they're done in the stretch, so they slow it down so that doesn't happen.

Fragile horses , bad airways, bad feet , bad knees and bad attitudes. How many Storm Cats do you see run as 5 yr olds?

a half million dollar stud fee for all that?

You mean like a horse like.....Dominican? Who entered today with a perfect 3 for 3 synthetic record, had beaten the KY Derby winner over the Poly, and has the correct closing style.

Polytrack plays far more to randomness than either dirt or grass.

You are making too much sense honu......

horse looked like it needed a race.... been off too long, which was something I was hoping for today. He'll be better off in his next race.

Dominican's next race better be on the carpet because he hasn't proven anything on conventional dirt. Or grass, for that matter.

don't know what his connections are going to do, but if I were them, I'd be looking at shipping to Del Mar.

From the little AP races I've seen this meet, the poly seems to be pretty fair. KEE, however, was an absolute joke in the spring. Not sure if it's the weather, the upkeep or what, but I'd bet AP over KEE in a heartbeat right now.

I know , its highway robbery....... My bosses owners dont breed to him very often but we have had about 10 come thru the barn and they are a nightmare. When they gallop they dont bend their knee's , they always have throat issues and need myectomys and tie forward surguries which usually are a waste of time and money and their feet are often mal-conformed and dont match. Sometimes when they come in they are nice to be around but as soon as you start to put the pressure on them they melt mentally.
I dont care if I ever see another Storm Cat bred horse as long as I live , and whats worse are all the sons to him that are out there just throwing that crappy gene to more horses. Good example , Giants Causeway , every single one I have been around has been hard headed , extremely nervous , and not a good doer , they sweat and fret everyday and get so wound up that if they were human they would prolly commit suicide.

plttth

Lori the Arlington race was a mile and an eighth as well, they don't run a mile and a sixteenth at Arlington (it's a 9F oval, like Saratoga, so the gate would be like 30 yards from the turn).

Honu - That Said
 

What are some of your favorite stallions that produce offspring that you work with? Also, it appears the Mandella barn is coming on strong with many competitive two year olds. Any that have caught your eye yet to make their first start? Lastly, what are your current favorite horses to work with?

Thanks and i enjoy your comments and perspective that you bring....

PSH

The Round Table was at 1 1/8 miles but AP DOES run 1 1/16 mile races. They hadn't for years but have run quite a few of them this year, w/the finish line at the 1/16th pole.

Did not know that. If they ever get the BC again they should ABSOLUTELY do that for the 2YO races (or back them up to a mile out of the chute, preferably), the 9F was too far for them.