Not the first time this has happened at Louisiana Downs
 

A decade ago, a patron at Louisiana Downs hit a $100,000 Pick 6 at Hollywood. When he went to cash, he was informed by the track that his ticket was not valid because the bet had not been transmitted to the Hollywood pool.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/...WS01/706140336

Bettor stumped when winning ticket isn't cashed
June 14, 2007

By Roy Lang III
rflang@gannett.com

Betting the horses is hard enough. But when you win and still lose, it can become a bit distressing. Just ask Lee Maxie.

The Shreveporter thought he recently struck gold at Harrah's Louisiana Downs. His $34 Daily Double (bet on Golden Gate from the Bossier City race track) was to return a $1,251.20 payoff.


Unfortunately, when he went to the window to collect the loot, the teller had some bad news. At first, he was told the computers were temporarily down. Only when he returned to the track the following day did he discover he would not get his winnings — at least not immediately.

Louisiana Downs has one rule about wagering — "check your tickets." Maxie did that. He had the right horses, the right race, the right track, the right everything — except the amount of money coming back to him.

Louisiana Downs refunded the cost of all his bets for the race — a whopping $96.

"If I don't get my money, I hope they arrest me," said Maxie, who recalls machines going down at Louisiana Downs after the second race at Golden Gate had run May 23.

Amtote, the company in charge of mutuels at Louisiana Downs, had a communications breakdown with its hub in Ohio. Several tracks throughout the country were affected for a "couple of hours," according to Mark Midland, Louisiana Downs' vice president, who first learned of the incident Wednesday. He planned to call Maxie at home that day.

"We're in the business of taking bets," said Midland, who does not know if any announcement about the technical issue was made. "We want to honor it. As far as this individual, we have not received a formal complaint. We'll look into it and we'll be happy to pay him off."

Maxie unknowingly talked to a representative of Amtote, not Louisiana Downs.

Charles A. Gardiner III, executive director of the Louisiana Racing Commission, spoke with Louisiana Downs officials about Maxie's problems. There is a law that protects race tracks in the instance wagers do not reach the wagering pools.

"That's a goodwill thing that should be done more. But, ultimately, if (Louisiana Downs) wants to be hard about it — and there was a breakdown in communication — it would be hard to get him a remedy to get his money," Gardiner said. "I think as a PR move, it's a good thing to pay the bettor off.

"There is never a situation where everybody is happy. We're looking into it on his behalf," Gardiner said. "We're going to get some answers and we're going to get back to him. That was my promise. We'll try to get him a remedy."

All bettors are entitled to refunds — win or lose — if they purchased tickets affected by the breakdown.

"I might be broke and I'm not perfect, but my reputation is good around this town. Ask any of the people at the track," Maxie said

That was the day of the HOL P6 I believe because there was a well-publicized oitage at the Ohio hub that affected Lone Star Park and that region.. Gary West told us about it on the show...

When Travis Stone (LA Downs track announcer) visits here later, maybe he'll have a comment or more info, but I imagine Harrah's will make good...

so, is that where the $90k came from that was found in William Jefferson's freezer?

I wonder if an outage would allow losing tickets to get a refund. If the bet isn't technically made then you should technically still have your money. Somehow I think the bettor is the only one that gets screwed, again.

if I'm on the jury he would be awarded triple damages. They won't accidentally lose the hub again.

and if were to go postal

not guilty by reason of temporary sanity

They better pay him.If they don't,SUE THE BASTARDS!!!!

I'll be shocked if they pay him.

The LSRC rules state that we were not required to pay him, but we did. He was paid this afternoon. The story unfairly portrays the situation, but in the end, it was made right.

If you are betting through a wagering account, it would be easy for the track to refund the money, regardless of the outcome of the bet, once the track became aware that bets may not have been transmitted. But none of these incidents come to light until someone attempts to cash a winning ticket.

If the rules do not require you to pay him, then that's wrong. It is basically impossible for player's to know all the rules governing wagering. I wonder how many rules like this are in effect unknown to horseplayers around the country.

If they didnt refund all the bets made during the outage, they didnt make it right.

That particular La rule was enacted after LaD didn't pay a huge winning pick 6ticket when the bet wasn't transmitted to the Hollywood Park pools.

If the "right" thing to do is to pay the guy, then why does the rule say they don't have to? Is it unreasonable for a bettor to asssume when he walks away from a window or betting machine with a written record of a wager, that he has placed a bet? I sure hope not.

What amazes me is all the legislation to protect the "HOUSE", but the lowlybettor is left out in the cold. It seems only fair if the "HOUSE" accepts a bet and the patron has proof of the acceptance, someone should be responsible for paying the winners. Im sure the "HOUSE" keeps the proceds of the losing tickets. If the current gambling establishments arent willing to accept these terms, Im sure others will line up to make application. How Travis can feel that Harrahs did the right thing only reflects that he works for them. The only thing that harrahs need to do was to verify the ticket wasnt a forgery. Harrahs only paid after the bad pub and not because the wanted to do the right thing. They probably took in more money for the affected races than the paid on the one ticket they ended up paying . They still probably made a profit on the affected races.

Announcements are made, refunds are rewarded.

Bets not getting into host track pools is actually more common than most of us think.

The more you explain the more Harrahs LAD and other tracks look as if they are looking for an excuse. If these things happen often, looks like something needs to be done to straighten it out. The tracks surly arent inocent bystanders?

It says plain as day in the article that the Lousiana Downs VP found out about it on Wednesday and then the guy got paid on Thursday, that is pretty quick. There has to be some sort of due-diligence in the situation and this seems more like an overzealous reporter looking to stir the pot in a locale with very little news. Whether LaD paid him the next day or the next week, the fact of the matter is they paid him and they cannot concern themselves with any other effected patrons until they come forward.

NT

Check your ticket
 

How on earth would one know if the funds transferred to the host pool? As a bettor, I am responsible for picking my horses, calling the bet, paying for the bet, checking my ticket to insur accuracy and then hopefully cashing a winning ticket. Why is it now my problem to determine whether or not funds were allocated properly once they were accepted from me? That is just absurd.

Very good company line. Sounds like a reporter reporting the news. If this is a common occurance ,as Travis said, Ifeel that LaD should have a policy in force for such occurance. If they followed there policy it just proves they have no concern for doing the right thing. Just trying to deter the bettor from collecting a winner. It just proves my cynical way of looking at it. Legality and whats right have nothing in common.

You keep speaking as if they made no effort to return the money and in fact scoffed at the idea. The thing is, they did return the money. That has to carry some weight and I don't see how it's possible that they tried to deter the bettor from collecting a winner.

NT

Besides the winner being screwed, so was everyone who wagered on any race affected by the breakdown and lost.

Since none of the wagers went through, and it appears from the article there was no announcement made by La. Downs to "Hold All Tickets, WIN OR LOSE"
How does the track not have a responsibility to all of those who bet to refund their money? Uncashed tickets that were tossed or ripped up arent being paid out. Who benefits from that? I would gather there is some communication system to confirm a wager went through from a track to a hub, as their is a wager went through from a bettor to a clerk(in this case the betting ticket). As soon as there was a "breakdown" there should have been an announcement made and perhaps a message on tv screens of the problems.
Those who were at the track and are members of wager programs at the track might be in luck as they might be able to recap a wager made on the races in question.
This is why I always bring my losing tickets home, you never know!!

That day might have been a stoopers delight.

Why didnt they imediately pay the wager. They tried to deter the bettor by refusing to pay when the ticket initally, hoping that the bettor would exeept the excuse. Kinda like a insurance policy that refuses to pay until they are backed into a corner. When did they offer to pay? After the ,so called over zealous reporter reporting the facts. Do you think anyone other than this guy with the winning ticket ever got refunded there money? If you do. I have the next Derby winner in my backyard and will sell him to you for 50 bucks.

Here is a thought--take every losing ticket you have to the teller to check to see if your bet had been transmitted to appropriate track. If your bet wasn't transmitted then maybe you can get your money back.

Say Hello to Justice in the State of Louisiana. This poor guy comes on trying to explain the rules in a state that is one of the most backwards in the US. And he has not a flippin clue.

Sir. Please take that money out of the fund of the losing tickets that never made it to the pool... oh yes, you know that pool the track never talks about. What a flippin crock. Absolute stone age sophistication about the betting public. The tracks and this poor Travis assume its the same group of poor addicted people who just need that one home run that never comes.

What you are asking for is for every teller regardless of the circumstance to pay a ticket that they receive from a customer who is claiming it's a winner. When said teller put this man's ticket into the machine it gave him/her some sort of error message. He was probably then forwarded to the supervisor of that line, the supervisor probably called the mutuels manager, who eventually had to contact the VP of Operations. It is simply not a one-hour process. If you are expecting La Downs, or any track for that matter, to contact every patron who bought a ticket on a particular race where the money didn't make it into the pool and refund them, then I have something to sell you. A lot of times when these wagering hubs go down, and I know because Sam Houston is one for Scientific Games, it takes hours if not days for the system to get back to normal.

I can't speak for anyone who also bought a ticket because there hasn't been a groundbreaking story about that person in the Shreveport Times. I can't imagine Louisiana Downs, as it seems everyone here is so intent on proving, would legitimately attempt to keep people from getting money when they present their tickets. However, they have to present their tickets first. Now, with this information having been made public they can set up a window for refunds on bets made that particular day during the outage. That would be a good-faith effort at keeping everything fair.

NT

To also insinuate that LAD mischievously or knowingly did not honor this gentlemen ticket is a complete fabrication of the facts and is false.

He was refunded his ticket that day and was paid yesterday by the track as a result of the situation.

This is an ultra-rare situation, please don't misinterpret me for saying this happens everyday or even close to that often.

In the event a communication breakdown does occur, the bettors are notified of the situation via announcements.

If this was the case...

you got a business problem. That is not how to take care of this problem that has surely been discussed before. The track has had to have had irate customers that are wrong about their tickets. And a few that have a legitimate claim. You are a business with customers. Thats all I ever read into the article. Do good business and it does have the time to get to a paper.

So does anybody know where the money goes for winning tickets that are never claimed? Does Louisiana have a rule for where that money goes? Travis? Anyone?

I don't understand, the guy went to cash and the clerk said the ticket was a refund, and the guy said " no, I hit " and some of you seem to think the clerk should have said " Oh, OK, here's your money "?

It seems to me that pretty much as soon as the track found out the whole story they paid the guy. Sounds to me as though justice was served and only an overzealous reporter, as was pointed out here, made more of the story than was necessary.

Now, I realize the law as it seems to be written is unfair, and if tracks are accepting any wagers they should be responsible for them, whether or not the money gets transfered into a mutual pool. It's called the risk of doing business. If we bet, and we win, we must get paid. In this case that happened. But, this law needs to both be changed and made more clear.

Sounds to me like the guy went home with his bet repaid. This guy probably does not have a ton of money and they get it to him a day later. He goes home thinkn he is not going to get his money... Thats the problem. That is a business problem that they have had to have encountered before. It got into the paper. You dont let a legit claim like that go home. Thats bad business imo. In fact you tout the fact you had a winner at the very track w/out giving names... ask the customer if they mind announcing they have had a big winner. Surely Harrah's is accustomed to this strategy. I have a diff. mindset about tracks and other betting services on horse races, too much of a Vegas mentality possibly. But that seems to work awfully well. Sounds like they let a customer go home thinkin he was screwed.

So, winning ticket money not claimed? Where does that go? In Louisiana. What is the rule?

It's probably state by state but in NY the State gets the uncashed monies.

The guy got paid. Yes, I feel bad about his hassles, and perhaps if he had gone to the right people at the track on that day it would have been straightened out even faster. However, there is absolutely no way you can expect the clerk to have paid him. That's just ridiculous.

Believe me, I'm a bettor, and I sympathize with his plight to an extent, but since he got paid ultimately it is hard to not feel that the right thing was done.

Absolutely not. No way does the clerk figure that out. But the clerk knows who to send him to. They have to have some customer service. You dont let him go home without clearing it up.

Maybe in NY they dont do things like that. I know I was given an entire mutuel print out about 3 years ago when I questioned a pay out because I had looked at the pool sizes and the odds. I got to meet the head of mutuels at a smaller track. Maybe big operations dont care.

In my backward state's general fund. You got me to look it up. I'm not surprised it goes to the general fund, that's our politicians happy fund, lots' of taxes go there too. Hmm guess I'm not too happy with our legislative session this year. Much ado about cockfighting, raising taxes but nothing about how the LRA screwed many of the citizens that were flooded.
Here's the link to the LSRC http://horseracing.la.gov/index.html it's around pages 150 ish.
I didn't see where it said they don't have to pay, but it says something about having to transmit to the host track. I'm glad Harrah's decided to pay him. Good for Harrah's.
Oh and really nice for the guy !

I would like to know how much was bet on these affected races and how much was refunded? If this is not an uncommon occurance I would think they would have a policy in effect.

Andy, the right thing was done, but by rule of law they didn't have to do it. Doesn't that bother you a bit? I'm sure you are far more familiar with the wagering rules then I am, but it was no accident that some piece of **** politician enacted that law (I assume the part about the politician, not the accident).
And I just want to make it clear that this has nothing to do personally with Travis Stone. I think it is quite cool that he is a member here.

Sorry. I dont need to bash Louisiana too bad but my brother-in-law worked in the oil business and he said the payola to Govt. officials in the state was absolutely incredible and accepted. I did not believe this could go on in the U.S. when I heard some of the stories.

I love the drive over I-10 swamps though. I love the green tree frogs. I love all the swamp wildlife. Im serious. Some of the coolest stuff. Now the Yankees up in Shreveport... thats not serious enough wild for me.

This gentleman was paid, but the holder of the $100,000+ Pick 6 ticket that I referred to in my original post was not paid, and soon thereafter, the State Racing Commission adopted the rule that Travis referred to. That situation cannot be blamed on Harrah's as the Debartolo Corporation owned LaD at the time.

It is interesting to know that bets not being transmitted to the host pool is more common than we think. I cannot remember one instance where I have reviewed my daily online or telephone wagering records and have seen that I have been refunded a bet for a reason other than a scratch or the races being cancelled.

This story brings up far more questions than whether or not this particular guy got paid in this particular instance.

Such as:

When this happens -- ie, the bets aren't forwarded due to some glitch -- when is that announced? Before the horses cross the finish line? Before the official prices are posted? Or sometime later?

How is this announced? Loudspeaker at the track? What about people who place bets and leave the track? People placing bets at OTBs and leaving? People placing bets at home? How are these people supposed to become aware of this?

This is a subject that goes beyond what happened in this instance, at this track. It's something that should have a common set of rules that are in the best interest of the fans and all tracks, simulcast facilities, and account wagering companies adhere to.

I agree Harrahs did the right thing with this one winner. How about the action for all the other action on this race?LaD has some rose colered glasses if they think they did the right thing.

You are asking way too much. You are asking for some standardization in a sport that is fractured in so many ways. Good luck.

Hey we have the very best politicians that MONEY CAN BUY. They even keep 90,000.00 in the freezer, under FBI investigation and get re-elected. Maybe this belongs in the OT threads. Since Katrina I have lost all of the little faith I did have in our politicians.
But this has brought up a something I never really thought about. On occasion I have not cashed some little win tickets (just kept forgetting to bring them to the track or OTB, like little 2.00 win tickets, never forget my substantial tickets) I don't know where I thought it went but certainly doesn't belong in our states' infamous gen. fund.
And as far as the post about the rule changing when Debartolo co. owned it well as you can see deep pockets get legislation in my state. The average joe has little to no impact. Sad.
I'm going to read more about the rules @ lsrc. I am south LA, so I don't go to LaDowns, I go to the Fairgrounds. But this has brought up some interesting stuff.