lava loses in cali
 

after market over the man.

about a $12 exacta.

For the record, the connections of After Market used a rabbit to help get the job done.

oh, one of those two who burned up on the front end was with him? oh well...can't win them all.

glad to see him back tho, maybe next time!

Since when does LM have to have the lead?

Yeah, Valiant Effort was the rabbit.

who said that?

No one but it hard to use a rabbit against a horse who rates.

All Valiant Effort did was cook Lang Field. I don't think Lava Man was bothered in the least by what was going on 10 lengths in front of him.

He got beat by a better horse today.

Dubai curse! LOL LOL

Yes he did.

Lava Man rated well behind these two as did After Market. I think Lava Man was asked too soon but I dont think it would have mattered. He flat out got run down.

pfffft.

yeah, that's it. the 'curse' beat him....

no, after market did! he's had a heckuva win streak in cali, it couldn't last forever.

holly gold cup next?

He got beat with 124 pounds at mile and 1/4.

I can assure you the intention was not to cook Lang Field.

Lava Man is poop :)

I also couldn't figure out why that 4th place finisher was 50-1. His figures looked okay....

Your right, it was not the intention. But the whole group just waited for them to die and moved as a unit right past them. Again, I think Lava Man was moved a bit too early. And he was weighted heavily. He shall return...

But he did get smoked. I still love the horse. They still tried to lay the law down with him by moving first. That was courage(or stupidity) and Lava Man gave it all he had.

It was the same old Lava Man, always consistent and game. this time he was a little short against a sharp horse.

Lava Man is a nice horse, but in my opinion certainly overrated. He hasn't run a step outside of Cali and in After Market he faces the first horse in his home state with any top shelf kind of ability...and gets beaten.
LM needs to beat some top runners instead of continuing his same conquests at the same tracks in the same races. Articles comparing this horse to John Henry are absurd.

bla bla bla bla bla.... some won't be happy until racing in California is gone.

Yeah, East Coast horses who don't reproduce their form elsewhere didn't ship well, while West Coast horses who don't reproduce their form elsewhere are garbage. Do you have any idea of how long I have been hearing this refrain? (Try 37 years.) English Channel didn't win yesterday, either, you know.

I'm not defending or criticizing any "coasts" here at all...I'm referring strictly to a horse who some think is "the next John Henry" that not only can't win anywhere but his home tracks but gets his own arse handed to him in a big way at any other venues.
East Coast, West Coast, wherever, you have to be able to take it on the road to be a true champ - LM just doesn't cut it. Winning the Gold Cup for a seventh time won't change that either. Again, he is a very nice horse, but certainly not one of the truly elite horses of the last few years.

i'll say! comparing him to john henry is ridiculous! both multiple graded stakes, multi-million dollar winning geldings by obscure sires...obviously not at all alike.

no, honestly i haven't seen anyone compare the two. lava man is definitely not an elite horse in all seriousness, but he's no nag either. nags don't win that kind of money, those kinds of races. he's not overrated, i think anyone who follows the sport gives lava man his just due, and knows not to be any money. won't win outside cali, and odds are too short inside to make it worthwhile.

I don't mean to open a can of worms, but who did John Henry beat? I remember his races and there wasn't any big dominating horses during the late 70's and the 80's. John could ship and win so in my book that puts him right up with Cigar which didn't have alot of world beaters knocking down his door during his run. Lava Man does matches well with John Henry on dirt and turf until they ship.

well, he beat the bart for one. that horse was no slouch, won a couple nice races, including a couple grade 1's, as well as graded and group races...and set a couple of track records in the process.

john henry:



At 2:
WON Lafayette Futurity
At 3:
WON Round Table H. -G3, Chocolatetown H.; 2ND Lexington H. -G2, Hill Prince H.; 3RD Volante H. -G3, Lamplighter H. -G3
At 4:
WON Henry P. Russell H.; 2ND Bay Meadows H., Carleton F. Burke H. -G2, Sword Dancer S., Sunrise H.
At 5:
WON Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, San Juan Capistrano Inv. H. -G1, Oak Tree Inv. H. -G1, San Luis Rey S. -G1, Hialeah Turf Cup H. -G2, Brighton Beach H. -G3, San Marcos H. -G3, San Gabriel H. -G3; 2ND Jockey Club Gold Cup -G1, Sword Dancer S., Bowling Green H. -G2; 3RD Turf Classic Inv. H. -G1
At 6:
WON Arlington Million Inv., Jockey Club Gold Cup S. -G1, Santa Anita H. -G1, Oak Tree Inv. S. -G1, Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, Sword Dancer S. -G3, San Luis Rey S. -G1, San Luis Obispo H. -G2
At 7:
WON Santa Anita H. -G1 (500,000), Oak Tree Inv. H. -G1; 3RD Meadowlands Cup H. -G2, San Luis Rey S. -G1
At 8:
WON Hollywood Inv. Turf Cup H. -G1, American H. -G2; 2ND Budweiser Million -G1, Oak Tree Inv. S. -G1
At 9:
WON Budweiser Million S. -G1, Turf Classic S. -G1, Ballantine's Scotch Classic H., Hollywood Inv. H. -G1, Golden Gate H. -G3, Sunset H. -G1; 2ND Hollywood Gold Cup H. -G1; 3RD San Luis Rey S. -G1

Foaled: March 9, 1975.
Horse Of The Year, 1981 & 1984.
Champion Turf Horse, 1981, 1983, 1984.
Champion Older Horse, 1981.
Hall Of Fame inductee, 1990.


my t'bred legends book is at home, i can look up some of his other foes later...

Sometimes, I myself try to look at who a horse beats to determine how good they really are. I wasn't following racing back in John's day but I don't think I need to have been to know that u don't win stakes races from age two to age nine, win as many grade ones as he did, on both coasts and in between, win grade ones on both surfaces, be a two-time horse of the year as well as win numerous other championships.........without beating any good horses. It's impossible. IMPOSSIBLE. Maybe for a short stretch like Lava Man has gotten lucky with in California. But not for EIGHT years. IMPOSSIBLE.

It's hard for me to believe Lava Man was cooked by a rabbit that was nearly 10 lengths in front of him. They hit the 6f mark in 1:10.24 and Lava Man was just over eight lengths back at that point meaning he ran it in about 1:11 2/5 I don't believe that a 1:11 2/5 6f is going to cook Lava Man, at least not the Lava Man we've seen the past couple of years here. The move he made to go for the lead was the same move he's made in all of his other winning races. I don't think it was too soon. Just this time, he had a horse run him down. There have plenty of races in his streak that if there was anything even remotely capable, they would have run him down. But there wasn't. Yesterday was and the six pound weight difference didn't do him any favors either.

Theres noway he should have lost to that bunch. He did take a pretty hard bump at the break. Probably with no bumping at the break he wins. Also thought Nakatani left just a touch too soon trying to get the jump. Hes back on Bute and whatever else O'neill uses in Cali so hopefully big things from Lava in the near future.

I think age is starting to catch up with Lava Man, we'll see how he does after The HGC

but Not even considering his last race, I have always felt that something is very very very odd with Lava Man. It blows my mind that a horse who was/is this dominate in the SoCal ring not even being remotely competitve outside SoCal. Yes I do understand some horse just don't like to ship and it does affect some, but they at least will come in second or third.. But Lava Man has never been in the money, never a place or as show, or even rounded out a SuperFecta for that matter. I don't know, to never being in contention outside of Cali for such a dominante horse, I find a little odd.

Lava man carried 124lbs, everyone else carried 114-118lbs, thats what helped getting him beat. With it being his first race in months, I thought he ran great..

Some people don't understand that this race wasn't the goal. Lava Man is pointing towards the Gold Cup and if he had won he would of had to carry 126 or maybe 128.

I am surprised at how much some people disregard weight assignments.

I said nothing about the winner, but the weight means everything.

If a few extra pounds do not matter, then why even have a handicap race?? Why have weight for age? Why give the fillies a break when running against the boys? Why do apprentice riders get a weight break??

No doubt about that hoss, his extra weight wasnt the difference. I really thought he would get beat off the board, eventhough on paper he should drill that bunch. He probably did need one, but I think the bump and the premature move cost him more than the weight.

Wasn't trying to make an excuse for Lava Man, not a huge fan of his, what I am saying is that people disregard weight assignments in their handicapping and review of horses performances.

Weight does mean everything...

How was I wrong about the race? I thought he would struggle to hit the board after his Dubai flop and the trip home...

There are many factors, but weight is a very important one that handicappers continue to overlook, that is all I am trying to say. People were quick to cast him off, but few mentioned the weight. It really matters when you start carrying 8-12lbs more than all of your rivals.

Weight is the equailizer in horse racing. At 1 1/4 mile every pound over 121 is equal to a lenght at the wire. Some handicappers will say weight doesn't matter, I beleive it does.