Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Gomez to ride Hard Spun (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13612)

mclem10011 05-26-2007 11:18 AM

Gomez to ride Hard Spun
 
TVG just reported that Garret Gomez will be riding Hard Spun in the Belmont. Jones and Porter not happy with Pino's ride in the Preakness. This according to Chris Katoulak on tvg. Thoughts anyone?

10 pnt move up 05-26-2007 11:35 AM

This moves that horse up 5 lengths, at least

The Indomitable DrugS 05-26-2007 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
This moves that horse up 5 inches, at most

FTFY

cmorioles 05-26-2007 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
This moves that horse up 5 lengths, at least

So had Gomez been aboard in the prior two races, this horse would have dominated those two and be going for a Triple Crown?

10 pnt move up 05-26-2007 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles
So had Gomez been aboard in the prior two races, this horse would have dominated those two and be going for a Triple Crown?

basically

learn to rate the riders, you will win in this game!

The Indomitable DrugS 05-26-2007 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
basically

learn to rate the riders, you will win in this game!

No doubt!

somerfrost 05-26-2007 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
basically

learn to rate the riders, you will win in this game!


Absolute nonsense, play jocks and you end up sleeping in a cardboard box on the street. Pino rode HS perfectly in the Derby, he may have moved too early in the Preakness but I don't know what his instructions were or whether the horse dictated that move...remember the 73 Preakness? No horse moves on the first turn in a distance race going from last to first and holds on...well, almost never! Point is that there are a lot of factors that dictate how a jock rides in a race; apparently the connections feel a change will benefit the horse...I doubt it!

10 pnt move up 05-26-2007 01:18 PM

basically gomez moves a horse up like Arcaro, the horse is a lock now, he already has a pace advantage on the others.

Merlinsky 05-26-2007 01:19 PM

What I don't get is why this allegedly shows Rags to Riches probably won't go as Bloodhorse said. It's not like John V and Gomez are the only 2 riders on the planet. What I thought was amusing is that there's a couple that might enter if Street Sense is out but apparently they're not as obsessed with Curlin. SS was specifically mentioned as an obstacle instead of saying 'a couple of the big players' is what I'm saying.

somerfrost 05-26-2007 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
basically gomez moves a horse up like Arcaro, the horse is a lock now, he already has a pace advantage on the others.


Well, good luck with that! Gomez=Arcaro....humm! Not that I would bet HS to win if Arcaro was brought forward in time to ride him but that's an interesting assumption. You must rank Elliot pretty high, afterall he won the Derby and Preakness easily...or could it have been that he was sitting atop a monster?

Samarta 05-26-2007 01:35 PM

I'm not sure if I had the pick, Gomez would have been the guy, I would have gone after Prado....but then again, I'm not writing the checks....

Coach Pants 05-26-2007 02:17 PM

Bad decision. Larry Melancon was more than happy to ride.

ninetoone 05-26-2007 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky
What I don't get is why this allegedly shows Rags to Riches probably won't go as Bloodhorse said. It's not like John V and Gomez are the only 2 riders on the planet. What I thought was amusing is that there's a couple that might enter if Street Sense is out but apparently they're not as obsessed with Curlin. SS was specifically mentioned as an obstacle instead of saying 'a couple of the big players' is what I'm saying.


I agree...I don't get it either...

sumitas 05-26-2007 02:19 PM

this moves HS up...right now I give him an edge to win the Belmont.

Byebyemermaid 05-26-2007 02:56 PM

I remember when they took off Gomez off Concern and put Mike Smith aboard.Did Concern win any triple crown races?So they'll use Pino as the scapegoat.What happens when he finishes off the board at Belmont?I know the 1 1/2 miles was too far for him or he didn't grab the track.As i've always stated pure bush league when they moves like that.That's why i applauded Serpe and Ritchey when the big races came along they left Elliot on Smarty Jones and Jeremy Rose on Afleet Alex.Kudos for them.Bull$hit for Hard Spuns connections.

ArlJim78 05-26-2007 03:48 PM

Why is it such a big deal that they would changes jocks? It happens every day. They have given Pino eight straight mounts on Hard Spun including two TC races, is that nothing? If I'm the owner I would want the best rider on my horse and if Gomez was available I would go to him in a heartbeat. Especially after the ride in the Preakness.

ninetoone 05-26-2007 03:52 PM

It doesn't happen everyday in the middle of a TC series...

MaTH716 05-26-2007 03:56 PM

No other jockey could have given Hard Spun a better ride than the one Pino gave him in the derby. Despite the speedy workout he had that week. Then again, the ride he gave him (at his home track, mind you) in the Preakness merits a jockey change all by itself.

Bobby Fischer 05-26-2007 07:55 PM

food for subjective thought
 
It is a move in the right direction for the future of this horse.

How it affects his performance in The Belmont Stakes will depend on what if any changes to his running style will be employed, as well as how the race itself plays out in the beginning stages.

sumitas 05-26-2007 08:16 PM

totally agree bobby...sometimes you need to change starting pitchers, sometimes you need to change jockeys.

declansharbor 05-26-2007 08:21 PM

It is more of Porter searching for an excuse for his horse and trainer. Every time that camp opens up their mouths, it smells more and more like dog$hit. Sure Pino's move was a bit early, but his horse was full of run and wanted to throw Pino off his back for the stranglehold. The jock change is a joke. I have absolute, no respect for Porter. King of Cars is the King of Excuses. I'm from his region so it must be a strong distaste I have for this crumb, for me to bash him like this. Has it ever occured to him that his horses running style best fits shorter races and not the classic distances against serious stretch runners??

NoCarolinaTony 05-26-2007 10:58 PM

Garret ZGomez is now God
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
This moves that horse up 5 lengths, at least

I guess the concensus around the racing world is that Garret Gomez is so good he would win most races on any horse that he decides to ride.

NC Tony

10 pnt move up 05-27-2007 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony
I guess the concensus around the racing world is that Garret Gomez is so good he would win most races on any horse that he decides to ride.

NC Tony

that pretty much sums it up...

LARHAGE 05-27-2007 01:48 AM

Well the bottom line is he gave the horse a good ride in the Derby, but let's face it, that ride in the Preakness cost Hard Spun any chance of winning, how can we say he was distance challenged when he never got a chance to show he could run, that the horse held on for third after that Jamie Spencer like move is a testament to his grittiness, he may not be in the league of Curlin or Street Sense, but he had no chance to prove it in the Preakness, now they move on to a quirkier track like Belmont where experience is huge and they get one of the best money riders in the game to ride the horse and get criticized, to me it's a no-brainer. The connections have an obligation to the horse, not the riders. Mario Pino choked in his own back yard, the connections lost confidence in him. It's the name of the game, if he were my horse in the exact situation, I get Gomez in a heartbeat.

outofthebox 05-27-2007 07:41 AM

So what is Gomez going to do. Overate a free running horse. I still don't see anything wrong in Pinos' ride in the Preakness.
Sure it looked like he moved to soon. But the plain fact is that this is a colt who was rattling off 1/4s in 23, and when he went by the front runners, that's what he did, a 23. At no point did he change his hold on HS. He "did not" move to soon. The naturally ability of HS took him by those front runners easily imo. Remember, this is a colt who ran his last 1/2 in the Derby in over 51 seconds. I think trainer Jones has his work cut out for him in the ensuing weeks. He has to somehow alter that high cruising speed hat HS has become accustomed to. And only then will a jockey change make a difference imo..

Samarta 05-27-2007 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE
Well the bottom line is he gave the horse a good ride in the Derby, but let's face it, that ride in the Preakness cost Hard Spun any chance of winning, how can we say he was distance challenged when he never got a chance to show he could run, that the horse held on for third after that Jamie Spencer like move is a testament to his grittiness, he may not be in the league of Curlin or Street Sense, but he had no chance to prove it in the Preakness, now they move on to a quirkier track like Belmont where experience is huge and they get one of the best money riders in the game to ride the horse and get criticized, to me it's a no-brainer. The connections have an obligation to the horse, not the riders. Mario Pino choked in his own back yard, the connections lost confidence in him. It's the name of the game, if he were my horse in the exact situation, I get Gomez in a heartbeat.

But see, I don't see it as a jock issue....he made the move because he had a decision to make and after he made it, Prado put some heat on him....I think this is a combination of a couple of things...one of which is a mediocre at best training job.....this horse has done what he has done in spite of the connections....jmo

Samarta 05-27-2007 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox
So what is Gomez going to do. Overate a free running horse. I still don't see anything wrong in Pinos' ride in the Preakness.
Sure it looked like he moved to soon. But the plain fact is that this is a colt who was rattling off 1/4s in 23, and when he went by the front runners, that's what he did, a 23. At no point did he change his hold on HS. He "did not" move to soon. The naturally ability of HS took him by those front runners easily imo. Remember, this is a colt who ran his last 1/2 in the Derby in over 51 seconds. I think trainer Jones has his work cut out for him in the ensuing weeks. He has to somehow alter that high cruising speed hat HS has become accustomed to. And only then will a jockey change make a difference imo..

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner........totally agree...

The Bid 05-27-2007 09:07 AM

He would have ran third in the Preakness regardless of his ride. He made the right move in that race. Try to get a jump on Curlin and Hardspun because you know you cant beat either if you sit back and wait for them to come to you.

Gomez is a real strong finisher,he may be able to snag a 4th in the Belmont if he rides the hair off Hardspun.

Samarta 05-27-2007 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid
He would have ran third in the Preakness regardless of his ride. He made the right move in that race. Try to get a jump on Curlin and Hardspun because you know you cant beat either if you sit back and wait for them to come to you.

Gomez is a real strong finisher,he may be able to snag a 4th in the Belmont if he rides the hair off Hardspun.

You're probably right if there is no condition change in the race....I think that the problem isn't with Pino...c'mon this guy has been riding for 20+ years, won 6,000 races, so I think he probably knows what he's doing....I think it's a combination of the front runners coming back to the field quickly, Prado forcing the issue to his outside, and the horses inability to rate.....again, I go back to all the comments Jones has made about his high cruising speed....Pino used that speed to get Hard Spun out of a potential jam, but in doing so, allowed Prado to force the issue and the result was he was out of gas at the sixteeth pole...I just don't think Pino is the blame here.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.