Pletcher ... Same Old Story
 

I know his horses were marooned in difficult posts, but another bullshit showing from the John Edward lookalike.

Next time you see Mr.Pletcher...he'll have platinum blonde hair :eek:
and he'll look like Billy Idol off today's results :D

But he did win the maiden race after the Derby

t pleach WHATS UP #####

Pletcher has something to look forward to. Cowtown Cat will be a lock in the Hawthorne Gold Cup. A good prep would be the St. Louis Derby at Fairmount.

Was that a lock or what??? The man has become a legend at winning the booby prize. He did the same thing last year after failing (Yes Yes Yes won the 11th and paid $18)

One of these years he'll realize that an 8 week layoff or shuttling his horses around simply to appease his clients does NOT work in the attempt to win the Derby.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's see, he also won and ran second in the Oaks with two terrific fillies, 26 mil in purses and is on pace to shatter every training record, gets a new top client everyday. Yeah, what a bum!

Steve B. went off on this subject [ very well I thought ] on Mondays show.

If Todd belives in the ""system""... well he should also belive in..."" If it aint broke dont fix it ""... So his ""system"" has produced How many derby winners ?.... Maybe its time to fix the system ? Its funny that when he's with Johnny V. @ the spa... all his horses are going off @ 8-5... as they should be..since he wins... Maybe im from the old school and belive that todays horses dont run enought. If a horse needs a 8 week layoff.. Thats fine..but your going to send him to the KD ? The crime is the betting public who put hard earned $$'s on a horse that wasnt ready to run ? Belive Me I know NOTHING about training a horse, I know Todd does, but is it in the best interest of the horse & betting public ?

I've got a question for you, Chuck.

NBC made a big deal about Pletcher saddling all 5 horses. Would his rushing through the saddling routines have any effect on the way his horses ran? Athough he did saddle the top 2 runners in the Oaks (and another, if I'm not mistaken), is there something to be said for concentrating on 1 horse, and helping settle it, before a big race? Do you think his horses (and owners) would have been better served if he had drawn lots and concentrated on 1 horse and have his assistants assigned to each of the other horses? Just curious.

Sorry but I believe there isn't going to be a St. Louis Derby this year.

But has he won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Belmont?
How's he done in the BC?

Oh yeah, that's right... 2 for a million with the best stock in the world.

If I'm his clients, who ARE the top owners in the game- I want the big prize, not the booby prize he's becoming a champion of.

Since when are races like the Oaks, the Florida Derby, The Haskell, Turf Classic, Beldame, and Champagne booby prizes? 90 + stakes races won last year. Sounds like you need someone to blame for your lousy selections.

One last question: Would you take a win in any one of those races?

Thanks for playing.

altho it is indeed 'something' to win the oaks, there is nowhere (imo) near the pressure to win that race, as there is in the derby, preakness or belmont--or on bc day for that matter. he went 0-17 last winter on bc day. 0-5 last saturday, 1/4th the field, and not even in the MONEY.
it is baffling that pletcher wins so many graded races, but can't win the 'big ones'. but then again, maybe not so much.. tons of stock, and of course graded races from coast to coast, with fields that we generally feel are woefully inadequate for a graded race. strength in numbers i guess.

so yes, he wins grade ones, but there is still only ONE derby, one preakness, one belmont.

he'll win eventually, his seconds with bluegrass cat and invisible ink show promise.
but as he himself admitted, you have to win the big ones. as yet, he hasn't.

he's the dan marino of racing right now. but, unlike dan, he has time to change that. i think he will eventually.

Which Pletcher assistant are you?

You just don't get it.

First of all, I was AT every single race you list here except the Florida Derby. To me, winning these events are great accomplishments. But if I'm say, Tabor, and I've got my best horseflesh with him and he absolutely blows my horse's chances of winning the KENTUCKY Derby (the race that REALLY counts, not the damn Louisiana Derby) by trying to do it "his way", I'd be pretty angry.

Why are you so bitter that I question his methods in approaching the "big events"? He's got the best stock in the world, has the best riders in the world, the best assistants in the world, and runs his barn like a MACHINE. I have the utmost respect for him. But his record in the Derby and BC is no longer a "to be completed" point, it's a complete disaster.

For your information, I didn't pick a single Pletcher horse in the Derby top 3, or in last year's BC for that matter, so it had nothing to do with winning or losing money on him.

I didnt have any $$$ on CQ.... only AGS did put in my exacta's... but I do thank Todd for BlueGrass Cat last year and collected the $ 594.00 exacta with barbarbo.... He can win races, but I only wonder when these barns get sooooooo large, does the ""hands on "' training suffer ?

Phil, he's the one that trained Pie O My...Go get your shine box

I have a question for you guys. If Pletcher trained his Derby horses differently this year, which Pletcher horse would have beaten Street Sense in the Derby? I don't think any of them. Street Sense ran huge in the Derby. I don't think any of Pletcher's horses could have beaten him, no matter what Pletcher would have done.

NONE OF THEM. He didn't have the horse to beat SS. I think he did well to keep as many of them healthy enough to get in the race.

But they at least could have beaten Imawildncrazyguy and Sedgefield, no?

That would of put me in to some winning super's

and Peyton Manning could not lead a team to a ................................

:D :D :D

well, since the derby is a done deal, any talk of what if's would be pure speculation.

BUT street sense certainly has not proven to be unbeatable.

nafzger, jones and asmussen did right by their horses, all three (not so much curlin imo) ran very well, and evidently their trainers knew what they were doing. of course asmussen got curlin late in the game, so having what he had to work with, all things considered curlin did well.

but for a guy to have 5 of the 20 starters, and fail so dismally.....something just isn't right there.

Yes, that's true.

Carl Nafzger has only taken three horses to the derby in his entire career, and has two wins to show for it.

As a Colts fan, I'm glad you didn't say Peyton Manning, although until this February you would have been tempted. Look, no one knows more than Pletcher that 5 off the board and 0-19 is more than disappointing. One thing gets overlooked is that he was ableto get five to the race. Sometimes you need the horse. When you look at his clients, Winstar, Scatourcio, Padua, Tabor, they are not people who take kindly to sitting out the big ones. Just my two cents.

There is no question that there is something to be said about concentrating on one or two horses. It had to be mayhem for him in the weeks leading up to and Derby Day. If I'm Tabor I want him to give all his attention to my horse, but the reality of the situation is NOBODY....was beating Street Sense.
Also Tabor has been trusting Pletcher with his horses for many years. Pletcher just has not had a horse good enough to win this yet. This does not diminish his skills as a trainer. Look at Saratoga. It's the Premier racing meet in the country. He has blown away the competition. He will win the Derby several times before it's over. I'm saying all of this and I'm not even a big Pletcher fan, I just have a major respect for his training abilities.

I think that's a very good point.

no

I could be completely wrong here BUT, It is such an accomplishment to get to the TC races that undue pressure is put on these trainers....its not like Florida was just glad to get to BCS title game/or NCAA finals(you can thank me later,Cajun)...horses are different...not machines. 20 horse fields don't help either. IMO..if you want an honest race and conditions...you gotta trim the field to the one starting gate. Any trainer in the World would trade places with TP for the success he's garnered in the past years!

There's no doubt that Pletcher has been the dominant trainer in America in the past few years. But you're wrong. This is just like any other sport in that it's not enough to just get to a big day like the Derby or BC. You've got to show something on those days, especially if you're setting training records left and right, and this was as good a day as any for Pletcher to show something, and he didn't. He came up empty for whatever reason. Period.

The difference,my friend,is exactly what you wrote...it's about the horses...you can do everything possible to see them into the race and ...then they don't fire! I'd just as soon say that his horses weren't as advertized than hammer Pletcher. Frankel,Zito,Mandella have all had those stretches. You just shake your head and hit the next race!;)

He will get one sooner than later. He has the edge, class wise.