Outside Posts?
 

I was just having an argument with a friend of mine about how many horses have won the Derby from the outside posts. I could have sworn there have been at least a few. He says there has only been one. Does anyone know how many horses have won the Derby from posts 17-20? Who are some of the horses that have won from those posts?

Keep in mind that some Derby fields were small, Citation faced only 5 horses in 48 I believe, of the outside posts, 17 & 19 have had no winners I think, 18 has one...Gato Del Sol in 82, and 20 has one...Clyde Van Dusen in 29

Bear in mind that the Kentucky Derby hasn't had that many runnings with a full field of 20.

Here are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishing post positions since 1986.

1986: 1-3-6
1987: 4-9-14f
1988: 8-1a-3
1989: 10-2b(one of the best horses I ever saw )-2
1990: 7-11-8
1991: 4-10-7
1992: 7-3-1a
1993: 6-5-16
1994: 6-5-10
1995: 11-10-2b
1996: 4-3-8
1997: 6-5-12
1998: 2-12-7
1999: 11-13-8
2000: 12-5-1c
2001: 16-13-8
2002: 5-13-3
2003: 6-12-5
2004: 15-3-10
2005: 10-18-12
2006: 8-13-2

Since 1970 I got:

Monarchos 16
Fu Peg 15
Charismatic 16
Thunder Gulch 16
Gato de sol 18

What post position does the first aux. gate begin?

I'm pretty sure it's 15, pgardn. I believe that's why they chose that hole for Smarty...

I think Smarty was 13 hole.

These are incorrect for the most part. Charismatic and Thunder Gulch did NOT come from pp 16... they came out of the 11 hole. Fu Peg won out of the 12 hole. Gato Del Sol won out of the 11 hole as well. Where are you getting this info?

15.

I very well could be wrong as I dont remember...

Here is the site:
http://horseracing.about.com/od/hist...blderbywin.htm

I know for a fact that what I posted since 1986 is correct. The chances of a horse winning from the far outside post is slim, but since it hasn't been attempted that many times, who knows...

1986: 1-3-6 (Ferdinand)
1987: 4-9-14f (Alysheba)
1988: 8-1a-3 (Winning Colors)
1989: 10-2b(one of the best horses I ever saw )-2 (Sunday Silence)
1990: 7-11-8 (Unbridled)
1991: 4-10-7 (Strike the Gold)
1992: 7-3-1a (Lil E. Tee)
1993: 6-5-16 (Sea Hero)
1994: 6-5-10 (Go for Gin)
1995: 11-10-2b (Thunder Gulch)
1996: 4-3-8 (Grindstone)
1997: 6-5-12 (Silver Charm)
1998: 2-12-7 (Real Quiet)
1999: 11-13-8 (Charismatic)
2000: 12-5-1c (Fu Peg)
2001: 16-13-8 (Monarchos)
2002: 5-13-3 (War Emblem)
2003: 6-12-5 (Funny Cide)
2004: 15-3-10 (Smarty Jones)
2005: 10-18-12 (Giacomo)
2006: 8-13-2 (Barbaro)

That site is so wrong it's not even funny... geesh, these people need to get their facts straight. :eek:

Well they got Gato de Sol right according to Somer. So thats one out of...
The times look about right. The winners are correct. But I just dont remember Post postions well. I liked Brother Derek just last year and I cant remember whether he came out of the 20 thru the 17, but I think it was somewhere out there.

And yes lots of crap gets put up on the internet, I just dont remember these things well.

Gato Del Sol won out of the 11 hole, not the 18.

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2007/de...s/pdf/1982.pdf

Brother Derek was in the 18.

Attention Everyone:

There Is Some Bad Post Position Information Going Around. If You Think You Ingested Some Of This Report To The Emergency Tent Immediately. :(

lol

Keep in mind that some Derby fields were small, Citation faced only 5 horses in 48 I believe, of the outside posts, 17 & 19 have had no winners I think, 18 has one...Gato Del Sol in 82, and 20 has one...Clyde Van Dusen in 29


This is Somers post. He usually is very accurate. But honestly since I dont remember... And he said I think, which is a hint of Im not sure... So if you have found multiple errors I will go with your info.

The picture of Gato Del Sol with the roses around his neck wearing the 11 saddlecloth is proof enough for me. LOL

Alright, thanks.

I'm working on the horses from 1966-1985 too. I'm curious.

I would say that is pretty definitive. Except if you have Pillows skills of manipulating pictures.

Charismatic broke from the 16 hole. On this, I am POSITIVE. Charismatic got me into racing and I am very fond of the 16 post because of him. He wore number 11 due to coupled entries and the mutual field. The Derby didn't begin using separate entries for betting interests until 2001. Fusaichi Pegasus chose the 15 post, but I believe was moved down to 14 due to a scratch or two. It could have been he chose 16 and broke in 15. But again, he wore 12 because of couple entries. Gato del Sol broke from 18 and wore 11. Thank goodness for separate betting interests now days.

Where did you find this info? This is interesting... I was two years old when Gato Del Sol ran, so I have no clue other than what I've read.

Aha... getting to the meat of the matter. A person who actually is not experiencing dementia like myself. Thanks for remembering.

He's the only horse to have won from the 18 post. I can't recall who won from 20. I think it was Cannonade. Due to Any Given Saturday being forced to take the 18 hole, many talking heads have been talking about how it's only been once before by a horse in stall 18 - Gato del Sol. It was either HRTV or ESPN who showed a graph of the total winners for each post since 1900. 18 had one, 20 had one, 16 had three, and 15 I believe had two.

Cajun its looking like that site may not have got it all mixed up.

They got Smarty mixed up... I know he didn't break from the 13 hole. You can watch all of the replays on kentuckyderby.com. I'm still trying to see where Charismatic came out of... the video is too damn small.

I give up. Haha

I had forgotten how close Menifee was to getting Charismatic in the end...

Charismatic is right, before the totes were reconfigured to hold 20 betting interests, the Derby had "field" horses, the top 11 (as determined by track handicapper) were separate betting interests with the remainder grouped into "field"...there were also entries back then, so if there was an entry of two or more horses, they were numbered 1, 1a etc, a second entry was given 2 and so on. Post positions and numbers did not match up (ie: the 1a might draw post 20). Gato broke from the 18 in 1982.

Well dammit, Somer... that screws everything up! :(

Sorry that I was wrong, guys. Just disregard my post position posts.

Well thanks a lot, genius. I just got done hammering Cowtown Cat (post6):(

HAHA! If you're hammering Cowtown Cat because of his post, I want what you're smoking. :p