Great Hunter
 

GH has always been high on my Derby list. Now, I'm really not sure what to think. After watching the BlueGrass I'm very tempted to just throw that race out. But then I think, that was one terrible race as far as times go and wonder if he is a true contender. So, my question, would it be fair to toss the Bluegrass and say it was a fluke?

I was wondering the same thing. I really like Great Hunter but I didnt see that much of a reason for him to run up the track like that. I am going to look at the preps agian but as of now I really didnt see anything.

Believe me, I've watched that race over and over. He rushed up (if you could call it that) and sat right of the very slow fractions. He really likes to settle back and make one big run, so maybe he was out of his element. The next thing I noticed is just as he switched leads he gets sandwiched. Now, whether or not he could have done enough to get up is in question. I know many people have written him off, but I'm really not wanting to.

I'm still a huge fan and see no reason to change your feelings about him after this race. He was out of his element being right off the pace and then got squeezed out of the race. He did look done at that point and apparently Nakatani felt the same way. He only had 2 works since his huge move in the lewis, so he might not have been ready for a big effort. I'll be following his workouts over the next 3 weeks and see if how he trainis.

I don't understand.. didn't GH have to take up in mid-stretch when Tueflesberg bore out? He probably still doesn't win, but I'd say he lost all chance when that happened anyway.

I never liked him, simply because I think O'Neill is one of those trainers whose horses don't do anything out of their respective elements. I didn't see a ton of excuses for him in the Blue Grass. He had to steady while he was tiring and it probably cost him fourth and that's it. Street Sense had to switch leads and was interfered with and he still only lost by a nose. I think Great Hunter at anything less than 15/1 in the Derby is an underlay.

Great Hunter is a good poly horse and seems to like Keenland. . . The fact that he ran such a clunker there is a red flag for me. . .

And if you watch the head on replay, Dominican also lost ground when Street Sense moved over on him- so I disagree with the assumption that SS would've won without the interference. . .

I see what you're saying about GH running well on the Poly. But, wasn't it a rain soaked surface? Don't know much at all about the Poly, but it was such a weird race. Could it be from the Poly being soaked earlier in the day? Or is the Poly the same dry vs. wet?

GH ran OK at Churchill too though, didn't he?

Lets dont be to critical of some of the top colts. Remember, the goal is the first sat in may. If I dont play Greathunter it want because of what he has shown or not shown. It will be because I like another better, To just toss almost any of the top colts at this time is not very good capping, Sometimes a horse has a bad race. Im sure some of them will have a bad one in the derby.

Zip...

Great Hunter has yet to race at Churchill.


I was a bit surprised to see GH just off the pace. Best I can figure is that since he had the widest post and starting so close to the turn, maybe Nakatani didn't want to be caught 5-6 wide going into the first turn. The fact that Tueflesburg cleared so quickly just to the inside of him could have helped in making the decision to take advantage of that scenario and move GH up and closer to the rail???? Who knows though...


All in all...a complete toss of a race. I do think GH will be best served with his "one big run" tactics in the Derby, although he will need some luck in making his way through traffic, with what appears to be another large Derby field.

Great Hunter finished 3rd in the BC Juvy, Kev.

yep

Why didn't he get put ahead of Trufelsberg? Anyone know why? I didn't hear why they didn't put him ahead?

Let me just say that if you're throwing out Great Hunter for that race, then I don't see how you still like Street Sense, Zanjero, or Dominican. Great Hunter easily had the most trouble coming down the stretch. Steadied at least twice.

When is the last time O'Neill won beyond 8.5 furlongs outside of California?

I have no idea.

We've have five Lava Man failures where he's tired badly. Twice Liquidity has left California and tired badly. Cobalt Blue was a total disaster out of state. Even Notional and Great Hunter who are closers had their kicks dulled when they got beyond 8.5 outside of California. It is an interesting trend.

The Bluegrass is a toss. Polytrack races mean absolutely nothing. Great Hunter may be the best value on the board on derby day.

Shhhhhhhh....

Sorry bro...I stand corrected. I was just looking at his races on calracing.com and they didnt have the Juvy race listed.

I was wrong.

Agreed!

Going into the Blue Grass...my two Derby horses I liked were Great Hunter & Street Sense, coming out...I'm still stuck on those two. With everyone falling in love with Curlin and Nobiz being trained by Tagg, this duo should pay a square price.

How about less than a fluke but more than a published work. He was in with the graded earnings. He runs on the poly at 1 1/8 and improves his fitness and comes away clean. He is a solid stalker and breeeding doesn't look to be a huge issue.

A funny moment on TVG the other day when they were telling the story about Great Hunter and the Reddam vs Fifth Third Bank battle. Frank Lyons advocated boycotting Fifth Third Bank and Shrupp just freaked out.

All of the excuses for Great Hunter are funny to me. Out of his element? It's not like he was running faster than normal to be up close to that pace. He was running slower than he's ever run. There was only one horse that should have finished in front of him with that slow pace and that was Teuflesburg. The talk about his troubles in the stretch are funny to me. He was already in the midst of being passed by three other horses, all of whom should have been compromised more by the slow pace than he was. They were all outkicking him in the lane and what reason is there to believe that another furlong would have helped him more than the others? I can't see one. At some point, shouldn't it be time to face the facts with this horse? Every speed rating system has this as a slow horse. I don't know the exact numbers for the other systems but on the Beyer's, he's run nine times and been higher than 90 ONCE. When it's eight times at 90 or below in nine races, it tends to make the one time when he got a 101 look like a fluke. Other than that race, he's never shown an ability to run anything close to a fast race and other than the polytrack win, hasn't shown the ability to beat any good horses on a real dirt track. He's a total non-factor in the Derby if u ask me.