All charges being dropped
 

It was just announced by the NC Attorney General's Office that all charges are being dropped in the Duke LaCrosse case. Charges against all three young men.

There was no DNA to link these men to the alleged rape of this African American woman who was an exotic dancer. Of course that was known sometime ago, still the District Attorney in this case pushed forward even when this woman could not identify these men, nor could she keep from changing her story numerous times.

The District Attorney, as most know by now, wanted and needed the vote of the black community in order to keep his position. He got that. Though now, he faces quite a long list of ethic charges by the NC Bar Association.

This entire case has been a nightmare from the beginning, at which time this young woman was seen as a poor African American woman violated by three elitist white guys from Duke University, all the sons of wealthy parents.

She was lying from day one.

I wonder if Rev Al Sharpton and Rev.Jesse Jackson will have anything to say about the outcome of this particular case. I wonder if they will demand that this young African American woman apologize for her lying, along with the District Attorney Mike Nifong who withheld evidence in the case. (His disbarrment would be more suitable.)

I doubt this bit of news this morning will get anywhere near the press that Imus has gotten in the last three days. And that's a shame because it is every bit as newsworthy as the other debacle.

This case had a profound and detrimental affect on the lives of these young men and their families. And it has been the biggest embarrassment ever, to the state of North Carolina.

I doubt you'll see Al and Jesse commenting on this on tonights national news.

And that, I believe, is racism at its most obvious.

Grits, surely by now you know that it is only racism when it is directed towards non-whites....it is "get a thicker skin" when it is directed at whites... this being the case your suggestion that Rev Al and Rev Jesse should comment is probably somehow racist.

Dave, hush! LOLOL

All this time I thought it was slavery and the loss to Georgetown.

In all seriousness though, it's about frigging time. I think this story highlighted the bad and ugly of everything, because it further stigmatizes legitimate rape victims.

Rape is one of the most brutal, dehumanizing, isolating, crushing assertions of dominance a man can inflict upon a woman (yes i know it goes both ways too!), and for a woman to get raped and then be compared to this would be tragic. It's been happening across the country forever though, because a couple of bad apples use the wolf cry of rape to attempt to legitimize their otherwise unsavory behavior. Then when real rapes occur, people will point to this and say "why should we believe you?" which is the very last thing a rape victim needs to hear. Having seen it firsthand (a "badge of honor" I wish I didn't have) with one of my very best friends in this world, it disgusts me that anyone would take such a serious crime that permanently scars victims and has them looking over their shoulder for the rest of their life and unable to trust the opposite sex and a litany of other simply awful repurcussions, and try to use it when no real rape has occurred is offensive to every real rape victim out there and those who love them and have watched their suffering from the front row. It is one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever experienced in my life, so I don't take it lightly.

Long story short. **** her. I hope those boys can put this behind them as best they can.

I am familiar with this topic as well, because about 4 years ago when I was in 10th grade in high school, one of my buddies had a party. His parents were gone, and everyone was drinking. One of my friends who was a girl in my class, was getting with another one of my guy friends who was in 9th grade. Next thing we know, everyone was in a bunch of trouble as the girl told everyone at school she had been raped. It went to trial and a lot of messed up things were going on, and I still have no idea who to believe. Rape is a terrible thing, and something that should NEVER be lied about. I believe that my buddy did not rape her, but he has to live with it the rest of his life.

I have said from the beginning that this case smelled! My heart goes out to the young men who will have this over their heads forever as well as their families...the DA should be removed from office and disbarred at the very least. BUT...once again, blaming black leaders for this mess is ridiculous! Put the blame where it belongs...on the woman if she lied and it appears she did, the DA who shamelessly sacrificed truth for political gain (last I checked, he was a white guy I think). Again...how about some historical prespective here...young white guys from wealthy families allegedly raping a poor black woman...humm, that sounds familiar. Wasn't too long ago that it happened all the time, and the only outcome was that jokes were made about it! What would you expect black leaders to do?? They demanded justice and justice was done...in this case, the innocense of the young men has been determined and a corrupt and pathetic DA exposed. The fact that the guys had to go through the hell of being tried and convicted in the media is another issue. I wonder...were those who condemn Jesse and Al so outspoken during the OJ trial? Lots of white talking heads tried and convicted him in the media...whether you believe he was guilty or not, was that any more fair? Black leaders have learned to use the media to get across issues...in the 60's, it was often the presence of the media that kept us alive. Again, an unfortunate situation is used to attack black leaders instead of the real guilty parties...

PASS

Somer, you diatribe is the same here as in the thread about Imus. I clearly stated Nifong should be disbarred. I also stated the woman was lying from day one.

Now, if that's throwing it all on your Black leaders--well hush my mouth and call me stupid.

I think not.

Done.

I think otherwise!
First off...I don't know if the girl was lying "from day one"...I don't know what she said and when she said it, I don't know if she was prompted by the DA or not. All I do know is that the evidence isn't there to support a rape charge and never was...I'm always cautious condemning someone like her cause I know how things like that can evolve...IF she made up a story then she can be charged...I don't think that has happened yet so I'll withhold remarks about what she did or didn't do! As I said...blame falls on her if she did lie and wasn't coerced. Your remarks would have been fine if you stopped with a comdemnation of the DA but you had to take a shot at Jackson and Sharpton...therein lies my problem!

See Grits...what did i tell ya

Hey Somer: can you step off the "Freedom Train" long enough to get Sharpton to apologize for the Brawley fiasco? We both know that these 2 men never miss a "photo op" or fail to insinuate themselves into a situation to bless us with their wisdom. They're nothing but shills....mouths for hire!

No. I disagree wholeheartedly, because the way you're framing Sharpton and Jackson in this case paints them exactly how they want to be painted: Infallible.

You're holding them up in this case (which resembles some other cases they get involved with, even if only slightly) so that if she is telling the truth, they can be right by galavanting around talking about race when we should have been talking about strippers and rape from the get-go anyway. If they're wrong, which it certainly seems like they are, they just hush their mouths and never mention it again. No, they should be responsible for what they say in the very same way they want others to be responsible for what they say. It should be (dream world of course) that their threshold of accountability is at exactly the level they want to hold others to.

They were wrong. They race baited this situation, and they were wrong. Plain and simple. But you give them a free pass because of how you felt about them in the 60s? I don't mean to show my youthful ignorance, but times are a changing my friend.

Now I need to get out of this thread and stop agreeing with Grits before my head catches on fire out of the sheer irony.

Timm,
They are leaders of the black community, it's not necessary for you or me to like them but they deserve the respect accorded to leaders. I already spoke of Tawana and that mess...as I said, Al jumped too fast but it was believable.
Whenever accusations are treated as facts, innocent people suffer...I have steadfastly stood by that point all my life. Again...the problem here is the oldest trick in the book, the topic is about the charges brought against the Duke guys...instead of focusing on the DA who is clearly the "bad guy" here, folks quickly attack Jesse and Al. This is an old worn-out tactic, used against Dr King himself...I agree 100% with the original issue...that these boys were treated unjustly by a corrupt public figure...but I wonder, why do folks have to use this topic (and others) to attack black leaders?

The Black people don't consider either of these 2 to speak for them! That was in the MSM just the other day. So, because of the miscues that follow these 2...you really can't call them leaders btw...A leader apologizes when he makes an error in judgement(Sharpton)

No Brian...we are saying that they are doing what they should be doing...calling attention to an issue that has great significance to their community. They are leaders and that is what leaders should do! Nobody is saying they don't make mistakes...as I said (repeatedly) I was very vocal when Sharpton screwed up the Brawley situation...innocent people suffer when accusations are treated as facts. And the times do change but people change a lot slower! We are the sum of our experiences...like them or not, we need outspoken leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton. There is no justification for the hell the Duke boys have gone through, but it was a corrupt WHITE official who caused their pain and the sins of our fathers who made it an issue!

As leaders (black or otherwise) it would not be unreasonable for them to comment in a contructive manner rather than a destructive manner...they seem to be very vocal in a very much onesided way...

Please don't let Professor P. Garden WindBag see this.






He always finds a way to drag Iranian Studies into a discussion.

Nobody "speaks for" the black community...it is made up of individuals with individual points of view but Jesse and Sharpton are leaders. Tell me, how many times does George Bush apologize when he's wrong? In a perfect world, leaders would be perfect...but how can you justify holding black leaders to a higher standard than white leaders? This topic wasn't about Jesse and Al, it was about an injustice involving the Duke guys...but folks sure want to focus on Jesse and Al and again, I wonder "aloud" why???

Try focusing...This isn't about Bush. These Bozo's(my apologies to the Clown College) continually insert themselves in situations that don't warrant their intrusion. We don't need Jackson(or Carter) leading a delegation to anywhere to save the world. I was responding to your statements. Actually, I would hold them to a higher stand simply because of the Rev. in front of their names...but that's just me. Their actions decry their title.

It was only of "great significance" to their community because she was Black. This should have been about a stripper's rape at a party, no more, no less.

There has been outrage aplenty for the DA, but deflecting the conversation solely towards him ignores the fact that Sharpton and those of his ilk race bait every chance they get....which is one of the most patently racist things one can do. This had nothing to do with her being Black. Her being Black did not cause the Duke guys to fake rape her. Rape should be of great significance to everyone of every color, but there was hardly any racial injustice involved in this case. And every time one of them frames what should be a horrific, yet colorless situation with us vs. them color fits, their credibility will further unravel.

Grits made a point of talking about the DA, because anyone following this case has been repulsed by his actions. But the fact remains that this was not a racial issue in the least, and because Sharpton and Jackson et al want to frame it as one...then let's do that, let's frame it as one. Now that it's been properly framed by these two "leaders" let's get back to them being wrong and not being held accountable for it. I don't suggest I am speaking for Grits or anyone else when I say that, but that's the very reason why this issue has to do with men like that. They **** on the floor, and now they're stepping in it and everybody's too ****ing afraid to call them out for it.

No, it's not about Bush...but neither is it about Jackson or Sharpton. Again, when you debate in academia, you would be penalized for jumping off topic...on the net, it's a way of life. Attacking people doesn't address issues...it's merely a smokescreen! I support Jackson and Sharpton and you don't...obviously there will be no agreement here. "Constantly inserting themselves...." Yeah, that's exactly what we heard in the 60's! "The folks around here know their place, it's you outsiders stirring up trouble..." And folks tell me how much things have changed!

Brian,
As much as you may want to ignore the simple truth, this WAS about race! It involved a poor black woman and wealthy (at least as reported, I don't know how wealthy their families are) white college boys. You can't ignore the past when wealthy white "boys" used black women any way they wanted...obviously race was front and center here! Why on earth would you expect black leaders not to be involved??? I agree 100% that these boys were victims...but not of Jesse Jackson, they were victims of a corrupt DA. The DA played the "race card" and he should suffer the consequences but to expect black leaders to remain silent in the face of this is ridiculous! They demanded justice...and, this time at least, justice is being served! Had this all been "swept under the rug", the DA would have probably hung these poor kids on manufactured "evidence" ...exactly the way black men and women were railroaded for countless years...that's the irony here!!

Somer,

If equality is what is being seeked, then we MUST treat each and every case the EXACT same. It shouldn't have mattered what color her skin was... I don't give a shiat if she was white, black, green, purple, red... pick a color! This is what I don't understand... how we can expect equality in this country when people insist upon treating cases like this differently because of the color of someone's skin???

That is so much crap...and you know it! If you wholeheartedly support these slugs, then it's apparent that you too agree that the ends justify the means! Too bad!

So this case and OJ's acquittal are retribution for countless years of injustice??? It figures!

The case should have been treated the same regardless of her skin color or the boys...the fact is it was the DA who treated it differently! Since he needed the votes of blacks, he played the race card early and often. Black leaders have a responsibility to demand justice in such a case and that they did...so why blame them instead of the white man who was responsible??? You know, all this "we're all the same" sounds pretty hollow to a people who were beaten, tortured, murdered and enslaved not that long ago. Folks seem to want the black community to accept that there is a level playing field when clearly there is not! True equality won't occur in this culture...for women, racial minorities or gays until those with the power to change things start walking the walk instead of spouting a bunch of mindless crap....the reason this case hit a sore spot in the black community should be clear. When folks who are discriminated against start to see real change then color, sex and other stuff won't matter...but expecting folks to trust that they will be treated fairly when they never have been...well, that won't work!

That doesn't deserve a response...I won't say what I probably should.

The person who should be thrown under the bus is
Michael Nifong he jumped to conclusions about this
case and he ruined the lives of many on the Duke
lacrosse team.

You didn't need a response...you already made it in your treatise!

No Somer, you're mistaken, without the lying of the accuser, NONE of this would have transpired to begin with.

DNA evidence of 3 men, whose semen was found in/on this woman, none of which were the three accused men, further lead the Attorney General's Office to realize the alleged victim was lying.

And you may be unaware, as many are on a national level, that this woman had done this very thing before. She had a history, and that was ignored. She was lying and she propelled, and put into place, the entire ghastly proceeding that cost a lot of people tremendous sums of money, not to mention the anguish.

Its interesting that you believe these men to be such fine leaders, but listening to members of the Heritage Foundation and other members of the black community as I did last night--they do not seem quite as convinced of their leadership skills.

This is exactly what I believe many think the Rev.Sharpton and the Rev.Jackson to be.

"You got the money, we got the time."

Grits, I don't have much knowledge of what the woman said or didn't say...I do believe that she should be held responsible if she lied and while not familiar with NC law, I assume that filing a false police report is a crime. My point is that I will not assume anything about her behavior until the evidence is presented. The DA, on the other hand, is clearly responsible for using this mess to further his career and I feel confident in saying that. Clearly, there was a deliberate miscarriage of justice here and these boys suffered at the hands of a corrupt public official. We can debate forever the attributes (or lack thereof) of Jesse and Sharpton but I will always maintain that they were doing exactly what I would expect of them in becoming involved in this situation...now, could they have done things differently, spoken differently? Perhaps...and that is a matter for the black community to address...if they feel they are not good leaders then they can replace them...but, as leaders, they simply couldn't ignore a case such as this! And they aren't the ones responsible for the boys' pain here...lets put the blame where it belongs...with the DA, perhaps the woman, and our culture with it's history of abusing minorities and it's mindless preoccupation with dirt disguised as "news".

A good finale Somer, very good.

Yeah, I think I've gone about as far as I can here...we have much more in common than different and after awhile, we get stuck on an issue. Besides, I have the last episode of Xena to watch before Idol!

Quote of the NC Att General:
“We have no credible evidence that an attack occurred in that house that night,” he said. “The eyewitness identification procedures were faulty and unreliable. No DNA confirms the accuser’s story. No other witness confirms her story. Other evidence contradicts her story. She contradicts herself. ”

I realize that it may be expecting an awful lot but..... those in leadership positions that jumped on the band wagon (including sharpton and jackson) to condemn the Lacrosse Players should be at least somewhat vocal/visible to acknowledge the reality of their innocence...

Jackson said his PUSH group would pay her way through college, I wonder if that offer will still be good. Somer heres my problem with jesse and Al. They both run groups that if by run white people would be considered racist.. Instead of advancing black people why don't we advance all people. Why can't they be equally outraged with when a black man rapes a white woman. Anytime something happens to a black person, its because they are black. I've seen this thought again and again firsthand. Until they get out of this thinking, they will never get closer to equality. Jesse and Al need to realize, sometimes its not about race.


If its more politically correct you can substute african-american for black. To be honest I'm not sure which is the current pc term

Screw all of this being nice and asking for apologies. The DA and the accuser should go to jail...

ALostTexan

I read last night that Nifong will face charges, but the accuser won't.

Been over and over this and frankly, I'm unwilling to spend any more time on it...my points have been made in this thread. Last comment: You cannot act as if there is no past, no history. "Treat everyone the same" rings hollow in the ears of folks who have seen their entire race treated unfairly. As a human being, I decry any act of violence against any person, it simply isn't that simple though, not when you factor in generations of hatred, mistrust, abuse etc. One of the cleared Duke players said it best in his news conference yesterday...he said words to the effect of...this really opened my eyes to a world that I didn't know existed. If the police and DA can go unchecked and railroad someone like me, what must they be doing to people who don't have the resources that my family has to fight back? As I stated previously, the great irony here is that all the media attention probably saved these boys from being railroaded and landing in jail with made-up evidence...this is the reality of black folks in this country even today! How often are innocent black men and women found guilty of a crime simply because the police expected them (they were black afterall) to be guilty and a DA prosecuted more to advance his/her career than to worry about what really happened. How often are they victimized by a Public Defender either too overworked and without financial resources or simply incompetent? How many rich white guys are on death row? How many rich white guys are in prison period? OJ beat the rap because he had the money to hire the best lawyers in the country, the police and DA's office were at best incompetent and yes, cause a jury said..."take that!" in response to years of perceived injustice. So, simply saying, "everyone should be treated the same" is a joke until those with the power to actually see that happens take a stand and insure same!

I agree IF there is evidence that they committed a crime...they deserve what they tried to deny the Duke kids, a fair examination of all the facts and if necessary, a fair trial...not pandering to public outrage!

LostTexan,
You got that right!
On a different thread, now locked,where two posters (imposters) demanded an apology from me, despite the fact that I was completely correct on all accounts, you are right. "Screw all of this being nice and asking for apologies."
Timm also learned the words from me, "it figures". He'll tell you what they really mean.
Ironic when the hunter becomes the hunted, NO?
In parting, I'll just tell those that refused to concede defeat and resorted to the weakest of all "arguements"-name calling, to read Proverbs 14:8+17.
Look it up.
I make no apologies. Others have a tough time with that.
Down the Stretch