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-   -   Jara on thin ice with Al Maktoum (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11531)

Jax Cajun 04-02-2007 12:08 PM

Jara on thin ice with Al Maktoum
 
I wonder if this same theory would apply to John Valazquez's looking for Street Sense aboard AG Saturday?
"When he asked the horse to move, he was looking back to see what was behind him," Sheik Hamdan said of his jockey. "I hate that. When you go, you go. You don't sit and worry about what is behind you."

other harsh comments for Jara...

DUBAI — Shaikh Hamdan bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Deputy Ruler of Dubai and UAE Minister of Finance and Industry, said the Panamanian jockey Fernando Jara, who rode Invasor to victory in the $6 million Dubai World Cup on Saturday night, made an indecisive judgment for Premium Tap to make a race out of it.


Speaking to newsmen at the Dubai World Trade Centre yesterday, the leading horse breeder and owner noted that the inexperienced 19-year-old rider tracked the early speed but unnecessarily eased the horse once he went strike for strike with Premium Tap, otherwise he could have won more impressively.

“I have spoken to Jara after the race and told him that his mistake could have cost him the race, because the horse may not respond again when asked the question for the second time.

“It was a risky misjudgment and warned Jara not to do it again. The Panamanian is still very young and did not understand what would have been the tactical cost of such a move,” Shaikh Hamdan said. Responding to a question of Khaleej Time whether the four-year-old Candy Stripes colt will be able to lower the records of Cigar and Secretariat, Shaikh Hamdan said: “Invasor is the best horse in the world and that was what made the difference. I wonder how did the handicapper rate the winner of the Breeders’ Cup at 129?” he asked.

Regarding the poor form of Discreet Cat, Shaikh Hamdan said it was astonishing. “In fact I have expected the Godolphin horse to lose even before the start of the race. Trainer Saeed bin Suroor told me that they were planning to come off the pace and I didn’t like the idea and that was why Discreet Cat failed to keep pace and faded away in the early stages of the trip,” he said.

“How you expect someone to win a race while you are pulling him from his shirt,” he said.

Meanwhile, Shaikh Hamdan said when asked about the similarity between the Arabian horse and the Arab man, they are quite different.

“The Arabian horse is obedient while the Arab man is up tide. Only Arabian horses and dogs are faithful,” he said with a smile.

Sightseek 04-02-2007 12:15 PM

I sorta sensed some tension after the race in the interviews as Jara looked a bit uneasy...

NTamm1215 04-02-2007 12:18 PM

Wow, he sounds like a fireball.

I saw this posted on a different board as part of a story in the International Herald-Tribune I think. Kiaran McLaughlin responded by saying that Jara peeking back didn't bother him because it's usually a sign that a rider feels like he has a lot of horse.

Sheikh Hamdan must have watched that Donn replay over and over and was just waiting for Jara to do the slightest thing wrong.

His comments about Discreet Cat are also pretty solid. They need to ask him if he can fill in for HRTV or TVG.

NT

Jax Cajun 04-02-2007 12:18 PM

[quote=Sightseek]I sorta sensed some tension after the race in the interviews as Jara looked a bit uneasy...[/QUOTE

He must have wondered what torture chamber awaited him.

pointman 04-02-2007 12:19 PM

Since when is winning a race a bad thing? Why go all out on a horse when you don't need to? He must be kidding. Jara's not always my favorite jock, but this is ridiculous.

ArlJim78 04-02-2007 12:29 PM

I have personally felt that Jara's style is a plus, and fits the horse very well.
He is on the best horse and he rides him confidently enough to get the win each time.

I like the fact that he wins without resorting to a frantic full on drive for the final furlong. He hasn't needed to do that to win, so why do it and unnecessarily use the horse.

Of course Invasor could have won by larger margins if he were ridden more aggressively, but what would be the point? I can see maybe targeting a specific race where they might want to race against the clock and go all out, full throttle. But I don't think he needs to do that every time. No problem winning against the best in the world by only 2-3 lengths.

zippyneedsawin 04-02-2007 12:30 PM

Jara won, but not well enough... sheesh..

Linny 04-02-2007 12:33 PM

Even if you are on Invasor, you need to know where DC is at all times. let's say DC is not suffering from a sore throat and Frankie has him rolling from off the pace. Fernando doesn't look back, figures he can beat Premium Tap any time and doesn't step on the gas. At the halfway point of the stretch (1 1/2f out) Frankie sails on by with Invasor dozing. How's Hamdan feel now?
Fernando had no idea that Discreet Cat had nothing in the tank turning for home. He doesn't want Invasor to get to the front and goof off, allowing him to get caught should anyone be mounting a rally. With as good a horse as DC someplace back there, possibly mounting a rally Jara simply has to take stock of the race setting up behind him.

ArlJim78 04-02-2007 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Even if you are on Invasor, you need to know where DC is at all times. let's say DC is not suffering from a sore throat and Frankie has him rolling from off the pace. Fernando doesn't look back, figures he can beat Premium Tap any time and doesn't step on the gas. At the halfway point of the stretch (1 1/2f out) Frankie sails on by with Invasor dozing. How's Hamdan feel now?
Fernando had no idea that Discreet Cat had nothing in the tank turning for home. He doesn't want Invasor to get to the front and goof off, allowing him to get caught should anyone be mounting a rally. With as good a horse as DC someplace back there, possibly mounting a rally Jara simply has to take stock of the race setting up behind him.

Those are my exact thoughts, when i saw him glance back I assumed he was just trying to see if he was going to be challenged from behind by Discreet Cat. I do not believe it was one of those look backs that some jockeys do in order to show off. He had to be curious as to what was going on with DC, so a quick glance back in order to size up the task at hand seems prudent.

ALostTexan 04-02-2007 12:55 PM

I cannot fault him for the ride, or any other ride on Invasor to this point.

These statements about how Jara did not have to step on the horse are perhaps why he continues to win, as he never takes all the horse has to offer, so he has yet to significantly bounce.

I totally agree, why take an all-out effort from a horse when you don't need to? He continues to win, and if it is not as impressively as the Sheiks want, sorry.

Winning is one thing, and if they want to win and look as good as possible, find another jockey...

ALostTexan

boswd 04-02-2007 01:00 PM

This is the type of second guessing that could screw up this streak. Jara could all of a sudden become overly cautious on how he rides him and who knows. When you are winning everything in site, don't fix what's not broken.

Rupert Pupkin 04-02-2007 01:03 PM

That is incredible. That Sheikh is completely clueless. He has no understanding of horseracing whatsoever. Jara rode the horse perfectly. You never want to move too early and you don't want to ask a horse if you don't have to. In addition, when there is a horse in front of you that you think you can go by at any time, you want to look back and see if anyone else is coming.

The Sheikh Hamdan is so off-base it is incredible. I don't think you would have ever heard Sheikh Muhammad say something like that. I think Sheikh Muhammad has a little better understanding of racing than that.

Seattleallstar 04-02-2007 01:05 PM

those darn Arabs never cease to amaze me, thats why DC cat lost and numerous others have lost. Next thing you will hear is that they are gonna pay Jerry Bailey 100k to come out of retirement to ride Invasor

Linny 04-02-2007 01:13 PM

Agree. One thing I like to see is a jock leave some gas in the tank. Many times winning by 10 when one length is fine ends up getting you beat next time.
Sounds like a big ego that wants to see his horse win by 25 lengths. It's unnesessary.

Grits 04-02-2007 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny
Even if you are on Invasor, you need to know where DC is at all times. let's say DC is not suffering from a sore throat and Frankie has him rolling from off the pace. Fernando doesn't look back, figures he can beat Premium Tap any time and doesn't step on the gas.

But, Linny, THIS did not happen. Fernando does know the horse. And Frankie, of course, had no horse in this particular event. He did not fire.

Quote:

At the halfway point of the stretch (1 1/2f out) Frankie sails on by with Invasor dozing.
Again, this did not happen. Invasor was his usual game self!

Quote:

How's Hamdan feel now? Fernando had no idea that Discreet Cat had nothing in the tank turning for home. He doesn't want Invasor to get to the front and goof off, allowing him to get caught should anyone be mounting a rally. With as good a horse as DC someplace back there, possibly mounting a rally Jara simply has to take stock of the race setting up behind him.
And I do not see that Jara has failed to do so, as of yet. This premiere SIX MILLION dollar race is OVER. This race was run exceptionally well, and the mistake made here is not by his jockey, Fernando Jara, not at all. There was no mistake made here but the one made by the spoiled rich dude from the desert that thinks Jara could have made a better grandstand showing of pushing his horse harder to get more air between the rest of the field.

The oil rich Arabian dressing down a 19 year old young man. All for WHAT?

Jim you were correct in your summation in your first post.

I get discouraged when fans offer up the what-ifs and other scenarios to jockeys, when the race has been run-- most especially when they've done their jobs and done them quite well.

I know that you know racing and pace, but the Arab's comments are wrong, he showed no grace, and that's unfortunate.

Let the Arab ride Invasor next time, but then that'd be a bust 'cause he couldn't ride a hog thru a phone booth.

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 01:20 PM

It'd be nice if you guys could refrain from using the Arab comments. This could have been any owner doing this... JMO.

Payson Dave 04-02-2007 01:22 PM

I think that Linny's post was trying to defend what FJ did

Seattleallstar 04-02-2007 01:23 PM

American owners dont do that;)

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
I think that Linny's post was trying to defend what FJ did

I wasn't referring to Linny.

Antitrust32 04-02-2007 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I wasn't referring to Linny.

haha, and payson dave wasnt referring to you!

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32
haha, and payson dave wasnt referring to you!

No comments from the peanut gallery! LMAO :p

Grits 04-02-2007 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
It'd be nice if you guys could refrain from using the Arab comments. This could have been any owner doing this... JMO.

Caj, I don't care what he is, Arab, Japanese, American, Mexican Or Filapino, it doesn't matter, this one happened to be Arabian.......that's not the point.

And Linny does speak to this in her second post, "leaving something in the tank."

Part of this, is competition among themselves between the Shiekhs. Thoughts we are not privy to.

jpops757 04-02-2007 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
I have personally felt that Jara's style is a plus, and fits the horse very well.
He is on the best horse and he rides him confidently enough to get the win each time.

I like the fact that he wins without resorting to a frantic full on drive for the final furlong. He hasn't needed to do that to win, so why do it and unnecessarily use the horse.

Of course Invasor could have won by larger margins if he were ridden more aggressively, but what would be the point? I can see maybe targeting a specific race where they might want to race against the clock and go all out, full throttle. But I don't think he needs to do that every time. No problem winning against the best in the world by only 2-3 lengths.

While I agree that his looking back didnt hinder his rally. A question though? If this wast a "Target Race", what would you call it? The shiek might sound crazy, but he does have a valid point. You try to fix something before its broke. Jara is a good fit for this monster but lets fine tune it a little better. Nineteen and still learning. Wasntt this something that could help him in the future?

Grits 04-02-2007 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
It'd be nice if you guys could refrain from using the Arab comments. This could have been any owner doing this... JMO.

Yes, I understand. Still, 99% of all owners couldn't ride a hog thru a phone booth, but they love to share with their trainers and jocks their instructions and their comments after the race has been run.

In other words, it ain't their gig.

ARyan 04-02-2007 01:33 PM

What an A-hole!

Linny 04-02-2007 01:34 PM

GRITS, I am defending Jara. The kid did what any good rider does, he evaluates the race at the top of the lane. From his vantage he has to assume that DC is the main threat. He doesn't know the colt has nothing. He has to peek back to be sure that DC is NOT rolling up into the race. If he were, Invasor might have been caught.
Of course they are "what-ifs" but covering your bases (with DC) while asking your horse to pass the rival at hand (PT) is good race riding sense. I often critisize jocks for riding too many horses and not their own. That's said, when there appears 9at least going in) that there is one horse that you have to beat, you must know where he is, at all times.
Do you think Cauthen wasn't mindful of where Alydar was every time? Do you think that all those jocks riding against Forego or Secretariat were unconcerned about those two's whereabouts? NOPE.

Payson Dave 04-02-2007 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32
haha, and payson dave wasnt referring to you!

Thank you AT.... I'll be sending ya some more flowers now

brianwspencer 04-02-2007 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Caj, I don't care what he is, Arab, Japanese, American, Mexican Or Filapino, it doesn't matter, this one happened to be Arabian.......that's not the point.

And Linny does speak to this in her second post, "leaving something in the tank."

Part of this, is competition among themselves between the Shiekhs. Thoughts we are not privy to.

I think the point is that if the owner were a black guy, there is no way in hell you would have said, "Let the Black ride him himself next time."

Grits 04-02-2007 01:38 PM

Yes Linny, sure they were. I just believe all that was said to this rider after winning, and in this particular case going on record, was unfortunate.

Grits 04-02-2007 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
I think the point is that if the owner were a black guy, there is no way in hell you would have said, "Let the Black ride him himself next time."

Oh Bull****, go back to handicapping Hawthorne or wherever you were, Brian.

I'm not listening to this drivel, as you so often call it.

brianwspencer 04-02-2007 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Oh Bull****, go back to handicapping Hawthorne or wherever you were, Brian.

I'm not listening to this drivel, as you so often call it.

So you would say that? Good to know. I totally underestimated you.

Why on earth is it drivel to point out that you couldn't refrain from saying something that some found not wholly appropriate?

"Let the Arab...."

Awesome.

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
I think the point is that if the owner were a black guy, there is no way in hell you would have said, "Let the Black ride him himself next time."

That's kind of the way I saw it too, but whatever...

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
I was not referring to yours I was referring to Grits's...

Now when you mentioned Arabs...it immediately brings to mind the desert...which brings to mind the song...

Sorry, Dave! :o

NTamm1215 04-02-2007 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Yes, I understand. Still, 99% of all owners couldn't ride a hog thru a phone booth, but they love to share with their trainers and jocks their instructions and their comments after the race has been run.

In other words, it ain't their gig.

Yeah it is, Grits. They pay the bills. They OWN the horse. They're allowed to say whatever they want. If the Sheikh didn't like part of the way Jara rode, he is WELL within his rights to say so.

Personally, I thought the comments were a little surprising, but I really don't think much of them more than that Hamdan is a very demanding guy.

If you recall after Jazil won the Belmont last year in the press conference Kiaran McLaughlin was asked about future plans and he said something to the effect of: "we'll see what Hamdan has to say, he pretty much calls the shots." Clearly Sheikh Hamdan is a demanding guy. I'm sure young Fernando does not have his feelings hurt. If so, I bet there are quite a few top notch riders all over the world who are willing to take the mount.

NT

SniperSB23 04-02-2007 01:49 PM

I think that a jockey shouldn't look back until he's clear of the field and wants to make sure he can gear the horse down. Looking back and knowing a horse is coming isn't going to give you any more horse underneath you to hold off the charge. All it can do is cost the horse momentum. So while I disagree with Jara's move I think it was absolutely wrong of Shiekh Hamdan to go public with his displeasure especially since Jara won the race.

Grits 04-02-2007 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
So you would say that? Good to know. I totally underestimated you.

Why on earth is it drivel to point out that you couldn't refrain from saying something that some found not wholly appropriate?

"Let the Arab...."

Awesome.

Brian, sorry sweetheart had the owner been French, I would have stated, "the Frenchman". Had the owner been English, "the Englishman or "the Brit". The owner an Australian, "the Aussie." The owner, a black African American, "the American."

You'd do better not attempting, in this particular case, to insult my intelligence.

That is why I find your comment to be drivel. Simply put, you are wrong.

Now, how good are you at apologizing?

Done here.

brianwspencer 04-02-2007 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Brian, sorry sweetheart had the owner been French, I would have stated, "the Frenchman". Had the owner been English, "the Englishman or "the Brit". The owner an Australian, "the Aussie." The owner, a black African American, "the American."

You'd do better not attempting, in this particular case, to insult my intelligence.

That is why I find your comment to be drivel. Simply put, you are wrong.

Now, how good are you at apologizing?

Done here.

When I've done something wrong, very good. Too bad calling you out on your Arab comment does not qualify.

G'day "sweetheart."

miraja2 04-02-2007 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grits
Brian, sorry sweetheart had the owner been French, I would have stated, "the Frenchman". Had the owner been English, "the Englishman or "the Brit". The owner an Australian, "the Aussie." The owner, a black African American, "the American."

You'd do better not attempting, in this particular case, to insult my intelligence.

That is why I find your comment to be drivel. Simply put, you are wrong.

Now, how good are you at apologizing?

Done here.

Are you suggesting that brian should apologize for correctly calling you out on your use of racial slurs? I guess you are right Grits. If people don't want to be racist.....I guess that is okay.....as long as they apologize for it.

Cajungator26 04-02-2007 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payson Dave
I was not referring to yours I was referring to Grits's...

Now when you mentioned Arabs...it immediately brings to mind the desert...which brings to mind the song...

I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

I dream of fire
Those dreams that tie two hearts that will never die
And near the flames
The shadows play in the shape of the mans desire

This desert rose
Whose shadow bears the secret promise
This desert flower
No sweet perfume that would torture you more than this

And now she turns
This way she moves in the logic of all my dreams
This fire burns
I realize that nothings as it seems

I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

I dream of rain
I lift my gaze to empty skies above
I close my eyes
The rare perfume is the sweet intoxication of love

I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

Sweet desert rose
Whose shadow bears the secret promise
This desert flower
No sweet perfume that would torture you more than this

Sweet desert rose
This memory of hidden hearts and souls
This desert flower
This rare perfurme is the sweet intoxication of love

Payson Dave 04-02-2007 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

I dream of fire
Those dreams that tie two hearts that will never die
And near the flames
The shadows play in the shape of the mans desire

This desert rose
Whose shadow bears the secret promise
This desert flower
No sweet perfume that would torture you more than this

And now she turns
This way she moves in the logic of all my dreams
This fire burns
I realize that nothings as it seems

I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

I dream of rain
I lift my gaze to empty skies above
I close my eyes
The rare perfume is the sweet intoxication of love

I dream of rain
I dream of gardens in the desert sand
I wake in vain
I dream of love as time runs through my hand

Sweet desert rose
Whose shadow bears the secret promise
This desert flower
No sweet perfume that would torture you more than this

Sweet desert rose
This memory of hidden hearts and souls
This desert flower
This rare perfurme is the sweet intoxication of love

wow that's nice...but all I wanted was a Bud Lite


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