invasor is similar to alysheba
 

in the fact that they can win at ANY race track whether its santa anita, pimlico, churchill , belmont.....whatever. you just dont see that type of versatility anymore, i hope invasor comes back to the states and continues to
the b. cup.

Good Point, also he can handle different types of adversity, pace, traffic, etc.
He is an amazing battler, warrior.
being versatile, extremely fast, and having the ability to really run all day are a great combination. I have made the comment before that he is a very agile, athletic horse, with great poise as well.

if invasor runs his race, can any horse currently in training beat him ?

article after the dwc says suburban is next on the agenda for invasor.

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

I think so too, I was just trying not to be confrontational.

always liked alysheba, he was a heck of a horse. i even named a dog after him!
but i think invasor is better then alysheba. he's better than a lot of horses that have been given 'great' labels.

Alysheba did set some track records though...

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

:D Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

True, but despite winning the Derby, Preakness, and Super Derby as a 3yo, Alysheba ws much better as a 4yo than he was in his 3yo campaign.
He won 6 G1s & a G2 as a 4yo including the Big Cap and the BCC. Right now I think it is a pretty fair comparison, although I too would probably give the slight edge to Invasor.
IF, however, Invasor continues to race this year, wins a couple more G1s and repeats in the BCC (right now there are a lot of reasons to think he might do that) he will move way past Alysheba and will have to move into the discussion with a pretty elite group of horses. This one is impressive.

no, he broke the 10f at meadowlands--he ran several sub-2.00 10f races in a row, i think that was a record as well. i'm being a bit facetious in comparing him to the great najran.;)

i don't think i'm taking a thing away from alysheba if i say i think invasor is better. i think invasor is THAT good.

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record. Alysheba got better with age in his four old season. He wasn't anything without lasix though, in the long run it may come to the breeding shed where one does better than the other...Alysheba has kinda been a bust.

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

A couple of months ago when McCarron was on TVG Legends.
G Stevens asked him of all the great Handicap horses he rode
what horse would you ride if they were all in the same race this
included Sunday Silence, Tiznow, Alysheba, Alphabet Soup and
many others. CJ said no question it would be Alysheba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz99ipc-KOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjyPzs0uTM

You are joking right?

Seabiscuit ran more in one summer than Invasor ran in three years

I think Invasor is very good but we have a tendency to sometimes overestimate the most recent horse or athlete. I don't think I can hold the Lasix thing against Alysheba; its legal everywhere in North America. If they had a Dubai World Cup back in 1988 does anybody think a Euro or South American horse would've stood a chance against Alysheba? No way.

well, since you're not allowed lasix in dubai, it might have hindered his chances there.

The problem with modern day racing is that no one really races anymore. Greatness in a horse used to be defined by many things among them winning important races over several seasons while carrying weight. Also a horse was judged by the calibur of competition that they were racing against which is a big problem for horses like Invasor who has really not faced much in the way of competition. The race yesterday was a perfect example of that. He has already proven that he a better horse than Premium Tap. What did he do yesterday except prove that again. With Discreet Cat obviously in some sort of distress, I cant really say that Invasor moved up in historical standards by winning that race regardless of the purse. It is not Invasors fault that he has no other top horses to compete against and he does win but he has yet to defeat a horse who would even be considered to be in the same breath as a hall of famer.

Maybe, maybe not. I know Alysheba didn't run well in the Belmont but the 12 furlongs might've been what did him in. Very similar to Unbridled in that respect. But when Unbridled ran w/out Lasix in NY in the 1990 BC Classic at 10 furlongs, it didn't matter.

that's all very true, and it's a very sad state of racing affairs that that is true.
there are no real handicap races anymore, the race is more often to the shed any more, rather than on the track.
thanks for the post, i do need to try to keep this more in perspective. i'm very high on the horse-it's a shame that lack of stiff competition might mean he's another 'could be' great rather than proving he is great.

He obvously is a very good horse and it is not that easy to ship and win anytime but I just don't get this feeling that I am watching a great horse when I watch him. Maybe it is the workmanlike style but I think it is that there are no really good other horses out there to compete with him. It would be interesting to see him ship west to take on Lava Man on his home turf in a race like the Pacific Classic. But there is no chance that will happen.

i'd like to see that. lava man is obviously his best only there, man that would be a great draw.

i enjoy watching him run, i think he does just enough- i mean, i really don't think premium tap has that much heart to run that far with invasor-was he just toying with that horse? knowing invasor is so close to perfect, coming back from the early sesamoid injury and being a world wide traveller...i just get a kick out of him running. so glad HIS owner was the right sheik, the one who enjoys keeping his horses on the track.

If he was by Storm Cat I doubt he would have been so sporting! But it is nice to have a Horse of the Year defend his title.

yeah, i said something along those lines yesterday--and then got dressed down for dissing candy stripes....but fact remains, if the phone was ringing off the hook from breeders calling, he'd have joined bernardini last winter. thank goodness he wasn't appealing commercially! i find him plenty appealing.

but speaking of storm cat, he's pretty far down on the sires list this year-of course it's still early in the year, but certainly not par for the course for him. age finally catch up to him a bit?

Yes, but in order to do that he had to run closer to the pace than in the Breeder's Cup Classic...so yes Invasor proved even more quality this time even if only defeating the same horse.

Chuck, are you serious? It would take Invasor shipping to California to race against Lava Man, et al, to convince you he might be a great horse?
Since when is Lava Man the standard for greatness? Yes he is at his best in Cali but Invasor would demolish Lava Man in the Pacific Classic imo.

Thank you!!!

No way was yesterday's race better than his BC Classic performance. Not even on the same page. First, he was closer to the pace because it was a crawlfest. Kandidate, the horse who everyone figured to go to the front, didn't, or couldnt. Discreet Cat was a total no-show. Last November, Invasor had to run down Bernardini, who at the time was favorite for Horse of the Year and he did it while wide over a rail friendly surface. Premium Tap had a good trip last November and still was 7 lengths behind. The also rans in the BC race would've murdered those Asian wannabe dirt runners who were fillers for yesterday's race.

Jim
I tried to find an appealing matchup but the handicap division is SO BAD, that the only really other legit horse is Lava Man in California. Maybe he would beat him out there but I dont see Invasor as an A level great horse simply because he wins a bunch of races that he should be winning. I mean he wont even have to carry any weight in the handicaps. Does Invasor vs. Corinthian get you excited? It is not really a knock on the horse but the times in which he is running.

He reminds me so much of the great high school player that has the impressive track record that has yet to be matched up against the big boys. Except there dont seem to be any big boys. You want a really scary senario for the older horse division? Think how bad it would be without him?

I dont understand your logic?

That he had to leave his normal closing/deep stalking style to win yesterday...there are plently of horses that would have been thrown out of their game by doing so and Premium Tap has certainly showed that he has staying speed and that race could have been a beautiful set up for him had Invasor been taken back.

I've seen projected figures for yesterday's race to prove otherwise.

I know what you are saying, and agree basically. I think so much of Invasor I would love to see any and all match-ups that would prove his potential greatness. Like you said there are not a wealth of stars standing around for him to conquer. To be fair though the BC win over Bernardini was quite impressive. Bernardini didn't stay around long enough to really make his mark but I know he was no slouch. Going to the PC against LavaMan would be one matchup that would definitely highlight his dominance if he were to win. I really wish it would happen but I suspect it won't.

No, Invasor vs. Corinthian does not get me excited. I think maybe his mark will be one of consistancy more so than having defeated any big names as the names don't exist. For example continuing his unbroken string of G1 victories until he retires.

Very well put!!!!!

I would say that these races highlight different aspects of Invasor.
The BC win was awesome, coming very wide around that turn, bumping with another horse, and running down Bernardini. It was a huge field although I wouldn't say that the also rans were necessarily any better than the ones that ran yesterday. Actually i feel the ones yesterday are better.

Yesterdays race was run in a different style, and ended up being a real speed fest finish. I can't wait to know the speed figures. I sense that they are going to be way up there.

Right now there is nobody to really challenge Invasor. Hopefully he keeps running well into the fall and is able to defend his title in the BCC. Then by that time one of the 3yos might have emerged as a legitimate G1 10f horse. If that happens, and Invasor defeats that animal, he will move to another level and perhaps will enter the discussion as one of the greats.
The fact that he continues to pile up wins in big races is no doubt impressive, but right now his signature victories have come over Premium Tap and the incredibly over-hyped Bernardini. He doesn't HAVE to defeat another great horse to be considered great in my opinion, but if he doesn't, than he needs to continue to demonstrate his dominace for the rest of the year to enter the discussion of all-time greats. He sure is impressive though.

I'm assuming they weren't pace figures. If you ever see Premium Tap on the lead, you know there's no speed in the race. And a speed figure doesn't tell the whole story; its HOW you earned that figure thats important. That said, I would discredit any figure that said yesterday's race was superior to the BC Classic.