My Problem With Religion
 

Ok, here goes:

I am spiritual in the sense that I think its important to be a good person and that there most likely a heaven...But I don't think one religion is any better than any other or should be preceived to be...In fact I think the world would be far better off if no one believed in religion at all.

There is no debating that more people in human history have died b/c of religion than anything else. Think about it....With that as a backdrop how can we justify something that inherently tears us apart?...I've seen friends who didn't get married b/c one family's religion trumped the others. That idea of "My religion is better than yours" so you need to change yours or you won't be good enough for my child or....---doesn't it make you sick?

To be fair, I also realize the good that religion can do when it improves how people treat each other. For instance, my father is a devout Catholic(I was raised Methodist) and he teaches C.C.D. and volunteers at a hospital every week. He is also the most decent giving person I've ever met. I'm sure his faith has had an impact on making him so....But does that justify belief? I'm pretty sure he'd be a great person anyway and if he had never heard of Jesus in his entire life, with the totality of his goodness over the course of his life, I'd assume he'd be in heaven if there was one....And don't get me started on how backwards religion can be anyway, just take Catholics. Forget about women priests and birth control and anything else in the world that makes sense....And how about Muslims who kill thousands of people based on the belief that they will get dozens of virgins in heaven?

So I guess what I'm saying is, the world would be better off if everyone was an atheist. The good that religion can do is not outweighed by the carnage it has already caused and will continue to cause.

Ya know Randall, on a serious note, I've been thinking about this a bunch lately.

I was an atheist in high school and then became a Christian. The problem is that I am a Christian because I believe in God and I believe that Jesus died for our sins. But I hate watching so-called "Christians" when they get on TV or message boards or anywhere else and spout off about stuff that would embarrass Jesus if he were standing next to them.

In that regard, I have more or less given up on organized religion -- finding a church to go to. I have never wavered since the beginning of my beliefs that God is very real and that Jesus is the world's best example...but I have wavered in being a part of a community. I tend to identify with "Red Letter Christians" (referring to Bibles that have Jesus's words in red) who look at public modern Christianity and all the battles they choose and all the things they say that are completely irrelevant to Jesus's message.

I'm sick of hypocrites, and I don't want to be associated with them. Those who point to Leviticus to show that homosexuality is "wrong," and then turn around and tell you that Mosaic law is irrelevant to modern day Christianity. As in, sure Leviticus allegedly says that homosexuality is wrong, but it also says we should stone blashpemers and should not eat meat on certain days etc etc. The list is endless. It's called picking and choosing, and lots of evangelicals (public ones, not insinuating that every evangelical is a piece of hypocritical trash) have no problem pointing to one book of the Bible to condemn something like homosexuality while simultaneously telling you that the laws in Leviticus are not applicable to modern Christianity. Other example, head of the National Association of Evangelicls, Ted Haggard. Spending all his time talking about how homosexuality is utterly wrong, while he's simultaneously out partaking in drugs and buttsex with a gay escort.

I can't stand that. I won't be a part of it. But for me, it's not God's fault that some of his believers distort His Son's message to the point that it is unrecognizable. So essentially, I've given up on organized religion, but still have not lost my faith in the importance of Christ and what he did for me.

Gosh, I hope that made a modicum of sense.

Brian that made a lot of sense and is pretty much where I'm coming from.

You have both made a tremendous amount of sense.

Our faith is such (that is, if we have faith--and there are many that do not) that it alllows us to see and to understand and accept that we are all different in our beliefs, but those beliefs are the foundation that engages us towards being better human beings, able to move through life each day making a difference. That, being a fine goal.

We don't always need a building with stained glass, but we do usually find ourselves gravatating to, and benefitting from, those that are likeminded. There's comfort there.

With religion causing as many problems as it does with intolerance of others beliefs and behaviors, I start thinking that God is being made into a very mean Santa Claus for adults.

Its a freeforall. "No he does not come down the chimney anymore, he uses UPS. Well if you believe that may he strike you down, everyone knows he uses the chimney." Forget small details like some people have no chimneys.

It gets way silly but dangerous. Too much micromanagement of details that lead to hatred. I really get tired during the season of the birth of Christ being told that x-mas has gotten out of hand. For gosh sakes let the kids have some fun without the infliction of guilt. The Catholic church (raised under this flag) just thrives on guilt. You were born bad, you will always be bad, you cant be as good as Christ so realize this and take pennance... its too much for young children.

Well said,Brian! And the very fact that humans fail a perfect God is reason enough to make sure that the Bible is the final word. Our reasonings are not His, so it's imperative that we 'hang in there' until we understand what God is saying through the Bible. It's not a sprint...it's a marathon.

Getting rid of religion won't solve any problems. The key is getting rid of stupid people.

[quote=Pillow Pants]Getting rid of religion won't solve any problems. The key is getting rid of stupid people.[/QUOTE]

How do you suggest we do this PP?

[quote=randallscott35]It's too late. They're the voting majority.

[quote=Pillow Pants]Was that a Democrat joke?:eek:

[quote=timmgirvan]What's with the quote system? Seems out of whack. PP's has turned into mine.?

As if touched by the hand of Gaaawduh.

LOL...Religion screwing something else up.

PP...you speak Elizabethan?

Its a freeforall. Everyone gets their own interpretation, yes even with the Bible of what is bad and good. It gets tiresome, and dangerous.

If you dont accept Jesus as your savior now, you will go to hell. When exactly can you accept him, and what exactly does it mean to accept him as a savior? I have never heard so many diff. answers within the Christian church. So it becomes a personal belief inflicted upon others in too many cases. I dont like this. And maybe it does not matter what I like. But if there is not some overall justice in it all (some sort of fairness), I want nothing to do with it. Im tired of hearing 3 billion Chinese are going to hell.

And hell is and heaven is... lets all take a try at an explaination. What's wrong with admitting you dont know but having some sort of basic faith that does not have to be detailed. I think people should be allowed to say I dont know. I think people who preach to others should use, "I dont know", more often. I personally dont hear it often enough. Maybe Scuds is right, maybe its a southern thing.

Pgardn: For a starter, Romans 2 gives an answer for you about anyone who hasn't heard the Gospel. It's a fair answer by your standards,imho. And it's possible you've just been talkin to the wrong people;)

Timm.

If the answers were all in the bible I would be very pleased. But they are not. And too many people make up answers based on personal interpretations. Or we look to someone to show us a place to read to make up our own minds? or what they think we should see based on what they have read?

Maybe things are crystal clear for some. I have looked to closely at the history of this great work. In the context of the world we live in, and the world we think the people who wrote this lived in, and the number of times it has been changed, and revised. I have to go back to the basics and ask where did I learn all this. How did I come certain beliefs. And if I am true to myself, I realize with total comfort, that the variation is astounding and to say I dont know is just fine. Because I am only human with severe limitations on understanding so much. In my mind it cant be a sin to ask questions and not come up with answers. In my world, this is the way it should be.

My concern IS that you'll be totally comfortable without coming up with the answer. You are a scientist,and the questions you face in various fields can be answered by the next generation(or the guy sitting next to you),but we are here for a short time and that question MUST be answered by everyone.

PP.....you are a rascal!!

Well PP, he actually wasn't the father so I guess Maury could pull that show off.

Science cannot and never will be able to answer many things I would like to know.

What is the question that must be answered by everyone? When must it be answered? And how did you personally determine the answers you will give me?

i just wish people would keep it simple. be good. be nice to people, don't be an ******* like rand says in his signature line. no one should have to preach to you (at you) for you to do the right thing. why does it have to involve a third party? why does some guy have to live a single, lonely life so he can tell you on sundays how to live?
i was raised a catholic. i haven't been to church in years, nor do i feel the lack. i've raised my kids to follow the golden rule. it's not rocket science!
do i believe a guy named jesus walked the earth? yes. do i think he set good examples about how to treat others? yes. what else do you need, or need to be told? all this judgemental crap...all the shooting, wars, crusades, it's all b.s. and the complete opposite of what religion is supposed to be about!

P: what??? there aren't any Christian scientists?? The question everyone(expect the people I was talking about in Romans 2) has to answer is: What are you gonna do about Jesus? 2) It's gotta be answered while you're still kickin 3) Faith,Bible,Study, and experience(some of it is even empirical)

I'm mad at radical Christians right now because they sent death threats to a hotel and thus deprived me of chocolate Jesus:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8021

Be sure to click on the Digby link at the end of Cole's post.

And also mad at the hotel for deliberatly setting up a provocative exhibit and then freaking out when it, well, provoked.

how can anyone answer an unanswerable question?

Zeiggie: We get along pretty good, but it's really not that simple. And you can't dismiss the singular most person is history because Man in his usual sloppy way prostituted Christs' message on Earth.

Z.

Have you met people that would interpret what you just wrote inadequate? I have met many. They would tell you... you have not been saved. I cannot make that determination. I will tell you that. When I ask these people how they would come to the conclusion that they have been saved, and that I have not... and continue the line of questioning. I often confuse them, or they stop listening and hide behind a shell of knowing without what I would consider satisfactory reasoning. It usually comes down to " I did not reason myself into this, I have faith" And I say but your faith had to involve some reasoning... and then it pretty much falls apart. They dont understand me, and I dont understand why they cant understand what I am trying to determine.

And my conclusion of their thinking becomes, dont ask so many questions and you will be fine. Accept, have faith, but dont inspect.

i brought this up at dinner the other night.....maybe i'm missing something, or several somethings, but what exactly is the big deal about the sculpture? why is it offensive? because it's chocolate, not marble? or is it that it's anatomically correct and nude?
i thought the knee jerk hysteria was comparable to the muslims regarding the mohammed cartoons in the newspapers last year. of course everyone tsk tsk'd that reaction--but this is about jesus, so i guess it's 'different'. glad as always to see that cooler heads prevail.

This just shows how ridiculous religion can be....What is wrong with this? It was an interesting creation and wasn't the least bit offensive to me or probably the majority of Christians....Only you can choose to be offended by something. Otherwise learn the word ignore.

Wow GR...for a sec, I thought you meant me.....but I've been home all weekend, fo realz!

i'm not dismissing him! i think the people who have taken all his messages and twisted them into some judgemental kind of garbage while they look down their noses at others are the ones who dismiss him!

We always have to be SO politically correct...someones' sensibilities will be crushed! Bull-pucky!! btw,Zeig....Capital J on that,huh?

Lots of death threats get sent over the internet. But frankly, Timm, I'd happily serve as a character witness for you if anyone ever accused you of doing those sorts of things. :)

I tell ya- after the exhibit was over, they were planning to slice up the statue so people could have a taste of the Body of Christ. Maybe that's why the Catholics (of which I was once) are so mad-- realizing the hotel's Communion would kick their Communion's ass. Stale wafer? Or chocolate? Which do you think is closer to a taste of Heaven? :)

hell, pg i've been told i have no soul, been judged by many around here because i don't attend church, or because they find out i've been raised catholic, apparently that in itself warrants eternal damnation in some circles....
thing is, how does anyone know anything about what happens next? lol you don't. they don't--yet 'they' (who is they?) know that 'they' are right, and everyone who is different is wrong, and dammed for it!

but the have faith part-i have to confess, i'm pretty lacking in the whole faith dept. i think there's something bigger then us out there--but i'm not so sure what!

in case you haven't noticed timm, i don't tend towards capitalization...too lazy to hit the shift key much of the time. but i'll try harder.

Read your quote...because of peoples' garbage...HE is relegated to the back burner in many peoples' lives. I just don't want it to be My friends' lives!

Though right now I'm praying to God that I won't yarf up everything I ate tonight (note to self: do NOT follow movie popcorn with two glasses of red wine).

I'm playing with you....but He is worth it!;)

You Deist, you-- well, if it worked for the Founding Fathers... :)

No kidding about the Catholic thing- I have a friend of 20 some years in Florida who told me she doesn't think Catholics are going to heaven because "They're more concerned with doing good deeds than with their relationship to Christ." Sigh...